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In Defence Of Mr Gandhi

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    In Defence Of Mr Gandhi

    There can be no doubt that leaders like Mr Gandhi And Mr Jinnah made mistakes.
    Their failiure to cooperate resulted in the mess we call Pakistan , India and Bangladesh.
    But It would be wrong to accuse Mr Gandhi of Genocide. Nothing in the history books suggest that these leaders were killers or sadistic.
    The crimes they did commit were those of
    erroneous judgement. Mr Jinnah who was bent on the creation of Pakistan divided the muslims of India.
    Mr Gandhi with his intense love for Hindu Spirituality isolated the muslims from the main stream .
    Nehru the most inexpereinced of the three has left permanant scars on the face of India.
    All three of the mentioned leaders acted out of love for the land or the people they represented. They failed miserably to help India in any manner possible.
    Their talents were confined to agitation. They were in essence good trouble makers but inadequate in the workings of a modern state.
    All three failed to give the people a sence of unity or identity.
    In essence We may hold these leaders responsible for the state of the Subcontinent from a third degree.
    To accuse any of these people of "plotting" the murder of millions is an absurd Idea.

    Resistance.

    #2
    If you had read the article, Dr. Aulakh said:
    "Pakistan is free today because Muhammad Ali Jinnah had vision,"
    Dr. Aulakh said. "The Sikh leadership
    lacked that vision. Instead, our naive leaders gave in to the false
    promises of the Congress leaders who
    were acting in bad faith."
    If Jinnah had given into the false promises of the Congress the Muslims would have faced the same genocide the Sikhs faced. Pls visit www.khalistan.com

    Comment


      #3
      Resistance Long time no see!

      I read a couple of your interesting posts about the partition of Pak and India in the last gup shup. And, it seems like time has just stopped. You are stuck with your point of views and don't register what others have to say.

      Lez go back in time...Let us say that Jinnah, Ghandhi and Nehru asked you for suggestions. What would you advise them and what steps would you take for the desies of the sub continent. I'm dead serious...a reply is appreciated and tolerated so go ahead buddy

      Thanks,
      BoSS




      Comment


        #4
        Boss,

        How are you Sir? Always good to hear from an old freind.
        It would be a fatal flaw on my part if I were to be stuck as you say on my own perceptions.
        You asked me to go back in to time. Here we go .
        It is 1947 , The 300 millions people of India are under the Rule of the English Empire. The English having suffered the war with Germany are no longer in a position to dictate militarily. Churchill the imperialist is no longer in power. There is a moderate govement in London.
        Mr Jinnah , Mr Gandhi and Nehru wake up in the morning and feel the simultaneous compulsion to visit me . They arrive at my house in their costumes. Mr Jinnah in his Saville suit and summer hat . Mr Gandhi in his single fabric of white. And Mr Nehru in his equally deceptive attire of cap and Kurta.
        Since this story is confined to the hypothetical desire of the writer, suddenly all Three of them cry out in Unision.
        " What Should We Do ? "
        My answer would have been as simple as it remains today; " Retire".

        Boss,
        These three men were not products of a simple life. Mr Jinnah an extremely disturbed child from the start, was never happy in his personal life. His marriage at the age of 13, his early responsibilities to family all affected his thinking. Mr Jinnah was never part of a community. He socialized among the Parisees. He married one. He dressed English and loved the Muslims.
        Mr Gandhi born in decaying middle class background suffered many complexes in his youth. He found himself to be of inadequate frame. He was constantly bullied by a muslim freind who once forced him to eat meat. As a child he recited the poem " The Meat Eating English Man Rules the Indian Small". His love for Hinduism was perhaps superficial but his love for peace was genuine.
        Both Mr Jinnah and Mr Gandhi were Gujrati speaking. They met in the early days at a Gujrati convention, where Mr Gandhi attacked Mr Jinnah for speaking English. Mr Jinnah continued to do so in his arrogant yet impressive manner. Later on the pages of history reveals more conflict that is of personal nature as opposed to political.
        Mr Nehru, the son of fortune an idealist with an aristocratic upbringing. His father a great man by all accounts was well liked by the muslims. His son was not to be. Nehru having acquired the best of Education returned To India with the sole intention of ruling. He considered himself to be the sole intellect in the game of independace. His allegiance to Gandhi was superficial. He regarded the muslims as " Economically backward". He refused to view the muslims as a unique or at least spiritually different people. Nehru was by all accounts an arrogant man who failed to compromise on important occasions. He refered to Mr Jinnah as an "Extremist" and A "Nusiance".

        I have bored you with these personal details because I wish to establish the conflicts that prevailed. These conflicts were not political but at times personal . These three strange men played havoc with our destiny. They deprived India of greateness. They should have retired .

        On Advice to the people of the subcontinent:

        We are the most intelligent people on Earth. Children die and women cry on both sides of the border. We are humans first. Let us Take control of our destiny through the instruments of peace.

        Resistance


        Comment


          #5
          i argee with u resistance that we all should move on!!What happened in the past is history and we can have a bright future ahead.
          The testing of the necleur bombs was a big mistake,even though india did it first we should have stoped.But according to our religion we were suppose to answer back.Personally i think we shouldn't have done that but i was very happy when the first i heard on the T.V , Mr.Nawaz's speech that we have tested the necleur bombs!
          anyways India is not doing right to kashmir?Do u agree??do write back and answer me!!
          Emaan khan

          Comment


            #6
            Mr Khan,

            How are you today ?

            One of the many destructive results of partition was the Kashmir Issue. The Indians who have repressed democracy in Kashmir are acting out of fear of Pakistan. They feel that an Independant kashmir would favour Pakistan with its natural resources.
            Pakistan which has tried to champion the cause of kashmir has failed to do so miserably. Pakistans track record speaks against the concept of freedom. An army that slaughtered millions in East Pakistan, hardly holds moral ground over issues of democracy.

            In essence Mr Emaan, I feel that the Kashmir issue symbolises the political delima of the subcontinent.
            The Kashmir Problem is not merely an Islamic Issue. There are many hindus living in Kashmir. Some of them have been killed by Militants supported by Pakistan.
            The Indian Army has harased raped and murdered thousands of muslims in Kashmir.

            I ask you Sir , Is this the way to progress?
            Has The Bomb In any way helped the poor suffering millions of India and Pakistan.
            Do Explosions solve problems of hunger and literacy.

            I clearly state that my concerns are not echoed by the leadership. The Hindu Goverment In India and the present regime in Pakistan are incompetent. Their survival depends on the flames of hatered.
            Let us stop helping them and help our selves instead. Let us vow to resist cheap propoganda and see the other as human.

            A mere line on the map drawn by the English is no justification for murder.

            Sincerely,

            Resistance

            Comment


              #7
              "Let us stop helping them and help our selves instead. Let us vow to resist cheap propoganda and see the other as human."

              But how?

              We choose all those leaders and than we say they are not good. I think people are not able choose the right leaders. Leaders should not be blamed solely, we should be able ourselves to choose the right! And that ability we don't have. Period.

              How come that?

              Lack of education. Leaders can easily fool the masses.

              Comment


                #8
                Mr Punabi Munda,
                You mentioned as qouted below:

                "We choose all those leaders and than we say they are not good. I think people are not able choose the right leaders."

                I do not recall voting for Mr Zia . Also My memory fails to recall when the People of East Pakistan voted for Tikka Khan, Yahya Khan or Niazi ?
                I do not recall voting for the military courts that are now functioning in Karachi.

                We did not choose these men . They were an evil presence who choked democracy.

                Resistance

                Comment


                  #9
                  Resistance,

                  I think it is extremely hard for you to understand what I meant. Your mode of thinking is in patches just like any sub-continental. In other words, just trying to fix a patch but not coping with a certian problem from the root.

                  But anyway, why do you want democracy?

                  Just copying nations form of government blindly is not enough.

                  I am sure that democracy is not the solution of everything and certianly not a gurantee for prosperity. For that you need resources and knowledge. Resources are becoming scarce and amount of land stays the same.

                  Keep going...


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Bottom Line:
                    Ghandi, and Nehru were both responsible for the genocide of the Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Dalits etc. They wanted to keep a united India for their own political agg*****zement. They didn't care about the slaughter minorities were facing by the Hindus. They just wanted power. They could have stopped the genocide but they didn't. When Jinnah wanted Pakistan as a separate homeland for Muslims because of all the persecution and oppression they were facing, Ghandi and Nehru opposed that because thWn they won't be able rule all of India. Jinnah knew that these two men could not be benefecial to Muslims and other minorities.
                    See, Ghandi neither opposed Hindu-Minority unity nor was for it. He just wanted to rule India and craved for power.

                    However history may judge Jinnah, his own contribution to
                    history cannot be doubted. As his biographer, Stanley
                    Wolpert, wrote:

                    'Few individuals significantly alter the course of history.
                    Fewer still modify the map of the world. Hardly anyone can
                    be credited with creating a nation-state. Mohammad Ali
                    Jinnah did all three.'
                    Jinnah is the only person in history who did all three. And if someone can do such a remarkable thing well, then he is The Greatest Leader in History.

                    ------------------

                    Comment


                      #11
                      One of my friends here at the forum mentioned we need " Resource". He also questions the need for democracy.

                      Martial Law is a most insulting and UnIslamic form of Law. It depletes the most valued "Resource" known to Man. Human Dignity.
                      The Martial Law Regimes in East Pakistan and then In remaining Pakistan Destroyed the fabric of free thought. Fear was instilled to supress intelect.
                      People in general have a God Given Right to Rule themselves. They must never be made subservient to an elite force that rules by force.
                      The Censorship During the Zia years was ridiculous. The News was altered , The history books were changed, Artists were banned , Poets were jailed , students imprisoned.
                      It was the death of idealism, a tragic chapter that had its roots in East Pakistan. There too the Army had planted itself to Rule who they simply considered as inferior.
                      The most amusing yet equaly tragic factor is that most of the right wing Islamic parties actualy favour Martial Law.
                      It is unfortunate that the Proponents of Islam are grossly unaware of its ideals.
                      The present PrimeMinister is a by product of Martial Law . His spineless nature earned him a seat in history. Zia looked favourably upon sycophants Like Nawaz.
                      Bhutto another criminal , who favoured dictators like YahYah Khan and Ayub was instrumental in the murder of Demoracy.

                      Mr Jinnah who remains clean on accusations of personal corruption may only be accused of bad judgement. His lack of perception lead to the partition. The partition was by all means the most painful incident for all muslims of India.
                      Divided in three locations, they have become ineffective , backward and poor.

                      Resistance

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Resistance,

                        I don't know whether you are a muslim or not but if you believe in islam than first please read Quran in the language you command best to understand. And better do it three times consequectively!

                        And you can gain some from the past experience/history but don't hang on there or become obsessed.

                        Ability to tackle the present problems is the need and not off tracking.

                        ------------------
                        Field Marshal punjabi munda
                        Chief Martial Law Administrator

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Resistance,
                          Pls read this for once.
                          Read this article from The Sikh Nation--
                          www.khalistan.com

                          WASHINGTON, D.C., August 26 -- Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh,
                          President of the Council of Khalistan,
                          received the Quaid-E-Azam M.A. Jinnah Freedom Award from the
                          Pakistan Golden Jubilee Celebration
                          Committee in Houston, Texas. The award was presented at a
                          celebration of Pakistan's 50th year of
                          independence and drew a crowd of approx. 15,000 people.

                          The Council of Khalistan serves as government pro tempore,
                          leading the peaceful, democratic, nonviolent
                          movement to liberate Khalistan, known as Shantmai Morcha or
                          peaceful agitation. The Sikh Nation
                          declared its independence on October 7, 1987, forming the
                          separate, sovereign country of Khalistan (from
                          the Arabic root "sovereign country of the Sikhs").

                          "I am extremely pleased to receive this award," said Dr. Aulakh,
                          whose speech stressed unity among the
                          Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Dalits, and other people suffering under
                          the repression of the Indian regime.
                          "Pakistan is free today because Muhammad Ali Jinnah had vision,"
                          Dr. Aulakh said. "The Sikh leadership
                          lacked that vision. Instead, our naive leaders gave in to the false
                          promises of the Congress leaders who
                          were acting in bad faith."

                          "India is not a secular country, as it claims, and it is not a
                          democracy either," said Dr. Aulakh. He pointed
                          out that India has murdered over 250,000 Sikhs since 1984,
                          according to the Punjab courts and an April
                          14 letter from a coalition of human-rights groups. It has also killed
                          over 200,000 Christians, more than
                          53,000 Kashmiri Muslims, and untold thousands of Assamese,
                          Manipuris, Dalits (the dark-skinned
                          aboriginal people of South Asia), and others. "Democracies don't
                          commit genocide," Dr. Aulakh said.

                          "Chief Minister Badal should learn from history," Dr. Aulakh said. "He
                          has no business allying with the
                          BJP or engaging in elections under the Indian constitution. Only
                          Khalistan will allow the Sikh Nation to
                          live in freedom, peace, prosperity, and dignity."

                          "Sikhs were promised the glow of freedom," Dr. Aulakh said.
                          "Instead, we have suffered the darkness of
                          Indian genocide. The Muslims of Kashmir and the Christians of
                          Nagaland, among others, suffer under a
                          similar repression," he said. "We must be united in our common
                          struggle," Dr. Aulakh said. "The struggle
                          for freedom is universal. We must work together to end Indian
                          tyranny and bring freedom to all the
                          people of South Asia." The speech ended with five chants of
                          "Pakistan Zindabad!" and five chants of
                          "Khalistan Zindabad!"

                          This genocide Dr. Aulakh is talking about was created by Ghandi
                          and Nehru. This is the man with the philosophy of non-violence.
                          Like Dr. Aulakh said that the naive leaders of the Sikh community
                          went with the false promises of the Congress leaders--Nehru and Gandhi. If the Sikhs
                          knew how the hindus could have been so muderous they would
                          have come to Pakistan.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            resistance if partition was a mistake and assume that there was no PAKISTAN. What do u suppose would have happened when USSR took over Afghanistan back in the 70s?

                            Without a PAKISTAN the muslims of the united india and ussr would have been butchered like cos the hindus sure in hell dont hate u any less than the ethiest russians.

                            What do muslims of india have? They cant save a Babri mosque from demolishing for crying out loud. And do u think it would have been different if all the muslims were united? I dont think so.

                            And to all those who think that creation of PAKISTAN was a mistake... I say go back to india where u belong cos we feel embarrassed to call any cow worshipper our p.m.


                            Comment


                              #15
                              coolio

                              sikhs were short sighted back then and resistance is now.

                              Comment

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