I dont understand this??

[itsMe]

I dont understand why on these forums talking against muslims or Pakistan is welcomed and is considered a sign of high intellect and brilliancy. On the other hand uttering something for muslims ot Pakistan gets you branded as a bad guy, an extremist, theocratic and a one deserving of all curses.

I consider myself an outright liberal, not religious from any angle, but my liberalism tells me to give the right of opinion to others whose opinion does not happen to match with mine.
In my opinion liberalism does not and should not be defined as being equal to Anti-muslim or Anti-Pakistani or anti any group of people for that matter. If that is the case then it is far narrow minded then mullahs. That is the kind of liberalism being practised in Turkey or Algeria these days, where ANYTHING, ANY BELEIF, ANY RELIGION but islam is allowed. This for sure is not the American kind of liberalism where different religion/sacts/languages/colors are respected and have a right to voice their point of view.

Come on, open up people, broaden your horizons. Dont make it a habbit of bashing people. Remember, things/views/ideas are NOT right or wrong they are just different. Look at them in the same perspective. Accept the differences. Take care ya all.




[This message has been edited by itsMe (edited 11-08-98).]

[Hedayat]

This is the most open and fair Paki Forum I have seen. I think you have taken somebody's criticism personally. On which forum people like Quark & Rubia will be tolerated (just a joke). None that I know. Many times I have expressed extreme views (on the left side) but never my post was edited by the Admin.

Turkey and Algeria have their own political and cultural problems and Islam is not the main bone of contention, it just might look like that because in both of those countries the Islamic parties are promoting Democracy and the the Dictatorial forces or b*****ng them terorists. To make it more clear, for exampl, just like Zia-ul-haq used Islam to extend his rule the Turkish and Algerian facists powers are using Islam but in the opposite way.

What is "American Kind of liberalism". Never heard that before. Not only your info on current affairs is bad, your historey is not very good either. One down turn in Economy and you will see how hospitable American (both black or white)would be to colored people.

People in America fight for freedom every day to keep it in this way, I am not talking about wars I am talking about legal bettales.

You! take care and not be hurt by your blind faith in what you called "American Liberalism"

[itsMe]

Thanks for your reply Hedayat.
I do not claim to be a knowledgeable person. I just try to keep an awareness for the happenings arround me. Infact, I learn something new every day from friends like yourself.

The point I was trying to make, pardon me if the lack of expressing in non-native-language is making me somewhat linguistically handicap, is why it is generally has become a trend to be expressivley (may not be in heart) anti muslim or anti Pakistani to be listed among the more enlighted ones. Why it is generally assumed that a patrioic Pakistani or a practising muslim cannot be on the intellectual or the rational side?

Humbly trying to fetch some constructive comments. Not intending to be vainly critical on any body.

[Rubiya Nur]

*


[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited July 30, 2000).]

[itsMe]

Hey..hey..Rubiya...how could you refer to yourself as ME... I am the only ME arround here...

So basically both you and Hedayat are with
me (or I am with you) that we should be more respectful of each others opinion and should build up a tendency ot accept the differences.

Now what about the core question... Do we have to delibrately (spell??) adopt an anti-muslim/pakistani tone to show/demonstrate our intellects or could it be done in an otherwiswe fashion too.

[Rubiya Nur]

*


[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited July 30, 2000).]

[Hedayat]

Rubia:

It was a compliment (as you very well understood) I was not trying to be a smarty pants or anything. I think that your comments are very hard hitting and full of insightful commentary and that could be a lawer in you (no buttering meant here).

Thanks for including my name in your posts, it means alot to me. "Ab Dosti" OK!

[Rubiya Nur]

*


[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited July 30, 2000).]

[s malik]

Let me correct few facts for u. Algeria and Turkey are in fact the most oppressed countries where Islamists are not allowed to participate in a democracy.
Algeria where Islamists were winning in majority, the election was stopped (on the orders of Western masters) and leaders put in jail and more than half a million Muslims have been slaughtered by the military junta.
Similarly in Turkey, the military junta has by law stopped any one forming Islamist party and recently deposed off an Islamist prime minister (again on the order of Western masters).
So my friend, if U R born Muslim, there is no shame in calling yourself one either, for Islam teaches more tolerance then any other religion. So one doesn't have to become a liberal, communist, socialist etc. etc. Get to know who U R first and then if U conclude its not for U, then U R own your own and choose. We do not know what we got before we criticise it.
Regarding criticism of Pakistan, surly there is lots to be said about improvements there. And the forum is quite liberal in this respect, though not always,, but mutual respect for others either Mullah or not, must be there.

[Mudassar]

Assalam Alaikum

Many muslims fall into this bias trap where they try to project Islam as being something nice and any parts of Islam they don't like or isn't a modern practice i.e. laws on apostasy, they regard as something bad. They say that Islam doesn't have all the answers yet they call themselves muslims.

The problem is that they see Islam as being just a spiritual religion like christianity, judaism, buddhism, hinduism i.e. it doesn't affect politics. The reality is that Islam is political as well as being spiritual.

When you see that Islam is the truth and a certainty why would you go anywhere else to solve your problems?

Some people on this forum have said that I'm biased towards Islam and I just took it as a compliment.

Assalam Alaikum

[This message has been edited by Mudassar (edited 11-11-98).]