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    Do you really ...

    need a miracle to believe in God?
    is one's faith that weak that they need to see faces on moon or trees spelling out words and phrases?

    So should i be saying hey i dont believe in God unless i see a Man's face in the star's pattern ?

    I remember mummy once telling me that God is happy with those who completely have faith in Him

    So once again is your faith that weak that you feel the need to see miracles ?

    [This message has been edited by Anchal (edited September 23, 2000).]

    Dearest Anchal,

    This is a obviously miracle of Allah that we AlhamDuAllah believe on him without seeing

    The truth is that we can not see him, but Allah says he is as close to us, as our blood van,

    He loves us more three mothers, now you can imagine how much our mother loves us, and Allah's love is 3 times greater, wow

    Those people are looser and are in illusion, who dont believe in Allah, and want to see him as a proof, or makes hand made image and pray them

    Allah bless them, and show the right path , aamin


      Originally posted by Jasoos:
      Allah bless them, and show the right path , aamin
      I'm very happy with it.
      I hope insha-allah that He will keep doin that.


        Anchal actually only true believers can witness miracles ( eg, praying trees, Quranic verses on the moon) what you believe is what you see, if you believe in the devil you will see his traces everywhere. The main word is belief, without belief there are no miracles.

        Its proven that most miracles witnessed were in the company of true believers. If you say that you wont believe Allah until you see a a ray of light from the heaven beam on you, you are in thick mud.

        The almighty does show his precence felt in a strong way sometimes, but to only a chosen few,who are dear to him. Not to these impositional clowns, who have this complex that Allah will really be offended if a couple of them choose not to accept him. The almighty gives a least care about pathetics who challenge him.

        oo LiFe Is An IllUsIoN aNd ReAliTy iS a FiGmEnT oF tHe iMaGiNaIiOn oo


          Kaka thats not what i asked
          A friend of mine once told me he doesnt believe in God and i got offended
          I told him look around you...what else do you need to believe in God

          I dont think people should look for happenings to shout God's presence
          His presence is already unquestionalbe

          I am sure there are miracles happening everywhere in the world
          but do we really need them to strenghten us ?
          Isnt faith in God itself enuff


            coz when i was born that was a pretty damn miracle and as i grow thats a miracle and other stuff in my life.

            ii don't need a miracle to belive in god coz god is a miracle.



              I guess it depends on your definition of a miracle...

              I mean caterpillar swathing itself in a cocoon and emerging after a few months a butterfly is a miracle.

              A sunflower chasing the sun across the sky is a miracle.

              Even things like the snow melting away in spring, the sun rising in the morning, your mum and dad coming home safely from work, all these so called little things are miracles too and we should never ever take them for granted.

              There's a verse, Thus have We sent down Clear Signs; and verily Allah doth guide whom He will!(22:16) Notice it says: 'whom He will', we do not know how, when, who, why, etc., and we have to remember that, everything is the will of Allah swt, and 'He will guide who He wills'. I mean we can only show people, with our words, with our actions, with our character, our example, but we cannot force anyone to believe, that is up to the person and Allah swt, for imaan comes from the Almighty and the Almighty alone. "We know best what they say; and thou art not one to ever awe them by force. So admonish with the Qu'ran such as fear My warning!"(50:45)

              [This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited September 24, 2000).]


                I am in no way denying Miracles
                But to acknowledge miracles is one thing
                and to make a big hype bout them is another

                My question was Do we need the sahara of Miracles to strenghthen our Belief in God?


                  *wry smile* Sorry Anchal i wasn't paying attn to you question.

                  No i don't think we need miracles to strengthen our belief in God. Faith...imaan is something which cannot be bought, it cannot be 'found', it cannot be 'picked' up, it cannot be given to us by our parents or our friends...or vice versa. Faith has to come from Allah swt. And moreover, faith is the ultimate act of trust, and that faith...that belief has to be 'enough' once you decide whatever it is you wish to believe. You cannot keep peeking round corners trying to find miracles to support your belief...i mean whatever happens happens fine, but to base your belief, your faith, on incidental occurences just doesn't seem right.....


                    i agree with girl from quraysh, and
                    its a miracle that we r here... i mean i have seen and read about a few things in newspapers etc about "sighting" eg, Allah written in a tomato i think it was, anyway a muslim does not need a miracle to actually believe in Allah, y should we? isnt it a miracle that we r here? and the Quran it has never been changed, y? the bible has been modified to suit the people, so isnt that proof enough? a miracle is what u take it to be, a miracle can be anythingfrom the smallest to something u may not even consider a miracle unless someone points it out to u.


                      i recieved this from somebody its interesting so i thought i should share it with u guys.
                      I hope u read the whole play

                      " A Play about God "

                      PART 1
                      Two friends, one Muslim called Asgher and other an atheist called Joshua, have just returned home after work and Asgher tripped on the carpet and fell.

                      Asgher: Thank God! I did not hurt myself!
                      Joshua: Don't thank God, thank me that I caught you on time.
                      Asgher: If God did not give you strength then you would have been unable to prevent me from falling.
                      Joshua: GOD! GOD! For you everything is God! I was born from my mother's womb. I did a lot of exercise in my teens, that's how I got my strength.
                      Asgher: And while doing these exercise, who do you think added a pound of meat in your shoulders and who do you think added vessels of flowing blood in that piece of meat so that you gained strength?
                      Joshua: Don't act like philosopher!
                      Asgher: It is not philosophy! It is logic and common sense!
                      Joshua: How can you be so certain?
                      Asgher: Do you know what lies beneath the earth or what will happen tomorrow?
                      Joshua: No. I am only certain of 3 things, death, to pay taxes and uncertainty! Ha!
                      Asgher: If you are certain of death then do you know what will happen to you after your death?
                      Joshua: Nothing.
                      Asgher: Nothing! How can you say that! Tell me when you were born who gave you food and nourished you and payed for your education?
                      Joshua: My parents.
                      Asgher: If you parents who gave you birth and who were so concerned about your future and about you education, do you there is no one who is concerned about all of us? Do you think that we are born to die and then nothing? All we did in life for nothing? We just come to this world enjoy and then nothing? Just darkness and oblivion? God created us and Gave us all these abilities.
                      Joshua: All this talk made me thirsty! Lets have some coffee.

                      They both go in the kitchen where there is a coffee machine.

                      Asgher: STOP! Do not switch the machine!
                      Joshua: Why?
                      Asgher: It will start by itself.
                      Joshua: Are you mad! How can it go by itself without me switching it on?
                      Asgher: If a mere coffee machine cannot run by itself without your control. How do you think this whole universe works? Don't you see the sun never gets in the way of the moon and the stars. All these stars and galaxies and this world never move from their specific positions and everyday they all come to their specific postions.What will happen if a planet or a the sun do not come to it's position? Havoc! Chaos! Don't you see that there is a great power behind which controls.
                      Joshua: That power is called Nature.
                      Asgher: If everything was controlled by nature then this coffee machine would have have started "naturally"!
                      Joshua: But if that power is God as you say then God should have switched on the machine!
                      Asgher: But God created you and me and gave us intelligence that we can make objects like coffee machine and He also gave us the strength in our hands that we can switch the machine.
                      Joshua: Okay, let us assume that there is God, then where is he? Or she?
                      Asgher: Because the term "masculinity" is used generally as one being powerful and because God is most powerful, we use a masculine term He. But He is without sex.
                      Joshua: How in the world did God became Jesus' father if He does not have any sex?
                      Asgher: That is not my belief. How can something unimaginable to human mind be confined to a human mind in a male form and became a father! He just Has to command and any creation will be created. He is the Most Powerful!
                      Joshua: Drink your coffee before God makes it cold!

                      They both drink their coffee.

                      Asgher: I have to go, it's time for my evening prayers.
                      Joshua: Whenever our discussion is at zenith, it's time for your prayers. Relax and enjoy, pass me some sugar.
                      Asgher gives the bowl of sugar to Joshua.
                      Joshua: Thanks.
                      Asgher: I just gave you sugar and you thanked me. Just imagine God has given me so much how can I be ungrateful to Him? That's why I pray, to thank Him.
                      Joshua: What has God given you that you have to thank Him so much?
                      Asgher: Eyes, ears, voice the most simple example is oxygen we breath. Go and buy a cylinder of oxygen and find how expensive it is! And God has given us free! Ask someone who is drowning how important this air. If only we thank Him for this air it will take a life time!
                      Joshua: Okay, okay. You better go and pray and thank Him from me as well!
                      Asgher: If you prayed then you could thank Him personally!

                      PART 2

                      Two days later, Joshua is sitting at his home, enters Asgher.

                      Asgher: How are you?
                      Joshua: Bad man, bad. I have lost the car keys, my mother is going to kill me!
                      Asgher: How is your mother?
                      Joshua: She is fine, recovering from her operation.
                      Asgher: Here they are, you forgot the keys at my place.
                      Joshua: Thank God, I got them!
                      Asgher: Ha! An atheist thanking god!
                      Joshua: Well it..
                      Asgher: You see, when you are in trouble and then suddenly your problem disappears you remember someone who has power to solve your problem. Unconsciously you believe in God but consciously you deny his existence, but when your problem was solved your unconscious mind reminded your conscious and that's why you said "thank God".
                      Joshua: Phew! What a lecture!
                      Asgher: True what God had revealed; that when man is in difficulty he remembers God then when God removes the problem, man runs away from God like he has never heard of Him!
                      Joshua: Than why does God puts us in difficulties?
                      Asgher: Because He wants to test us and see that we remember Him not only in trouble times but also in happiness.
                      Joshua: Then tell me where is He? How can we blind and follow something which we cannot see?
                      Asgher: Do you think I will follow a God whom I do not see? Eyes perceive Him not with the faculty of sight, but the heart sees Him through the realities of belief. One can see Him through His brilliant and perfect creations. Can you see in utter darkness?
                      Joshua: I guess not.
                      Asgher: And can you see when a powerful light is shone in you eyes?
                      Joshua: No.
                      Asgher: So one cannot see in darkness nor in extreme powerful light because one is blinded by it. God is so much light that we will became blind if we could have seen Him. We cannot see at the sun for a full minute how can we see the creator of the sun? Let me give you a simple example. A sculptor carves statues.
                      Joshua: Yeah!
                      Asgher: A sculptor carves a statue of a man, he has created a statue and then carves eyes in the same statue, do you think the statue which is the created by the sculptor can see its creator, the sculptor?
                      Joshua: Of course not!
                      Asgher: So you see no creation can see its creator.
                      Joshua: Where is He then?
                      Asgher: He is everywhere! All around us! He can not be perceived nor touched. Age cannot shorten Him nor time bring any changes to Him.
                      Joshua: Well if He created us then He must be also created.
                      Asgher: If He was created then He would not have been God but what had created Him would have been God. He was from the creation of "before" itself. And He is after every "after" without being after!
                      Joshua: Is there an end to God?
                      Asgher: He has no end nor is there any limit to his end. The concept of end does not apply to Him as all ends fall away before Him since He is the limit of all ends!
                      Joshua: Well if God does not have any end there is certainly an end to our discussion. I have to visit my mom in the hospital.
                      Asgher: See you later.

                      PART 3

                      The next day Joshua is sitting thinking, enters Asgher.

                      Asgher: Hi!
                      Joshua: Hi, do you know I have not slept the whole night thinking about what we talked about yesterday and why we have come to this world.
                      Asgher: We have come for a purpose.
                      Joshua: What?
                      Asgher: Why do you eat?
                      Joshua: What! Because I want to. I feel hungry!
                      Asgher: So you see you eat for a purpose, hunger. Everything has a purpose. Even a thief steals for a purpose. Do you think God created us and this huge universe without a purpose?
                      Joshua: But why did He create us?
                      Asgher: He created us so we can recognise and worship Him. Tell me is it not nice to be created? We have achieved so much, reached the moon, invented so many things, had fun in our lives..God has given us so much so in return He just wants us to obey Him and thank Him. That's not too much to ask for, is it Josh?
                      Joshua: Then what? After we recognise and thank Him then what?
                      Asgher: Then peace, bliss, and happiness...
                      Joshua: Now you are really tempting me..
                      Asgher: But all this in the next world..
                      Joshua: What about this world?
                      Asgher: This earth is a farm where we have to take care of our crop so we can get a better crop in the next world.
                      The phone rings
                      Asgher: Hello! Who? Dr. Atkins.
                      Joshua: Give me the phone, it is my mom's doc. Hello. What! Heart failure! How did it happen?
                      Asgher: Is everything okay?
                      Joshua: Oh! Asgher my mum just died!
                      Asgher: I am sorry!
                      Joshua: I have to go
                      They both depart.

                      PART 4

                      Three days later Asgher and Joshua are sitting, Joshua is crying

                      Asgher: Come on you can't cry forever. Pull yourself together man! We have come from God and to Him we shall return.This is the definition of life which you will not find in the Oxford dictionary.
                      Joshua: Oh Asgher I am so sad. Yesterday I went to the cinema but could not watch then I went to disco but I felt so disgusted. I nearly ran outside and shouted God help me but felt too proud, I told myself I can take care of my life, I do not need God. But Asgher I don't know..
                      Asgher: But you can't handle yourself!
                      Joshua: No I can't. Please help me..
                      Asgher: Then believe in one God who has no partners. He begets not nor is He begotten and none is like Him.
                      Joshua: I have neglected God for 21 years do you think He will answer my prayers?
                      Asgher: He is most kind and merciful. He gives us so many chances in life. He forgives us faster then the speed of light.
                      Joshua: Do you think so?
                      Asgher: I know so. His door is always open, it us that we are not knocking. He is always ready to answer. But instead we go to satan's door.
                      Joshua: Will I feel peace if I believe in God?
                      Asgher: You will be happy that there is someone to look after you when everything else fails. You will feel spiritually happy in this world and the next.
                      Joshua: And physically happy?
                      Asgher: Of course. But more in the next world. This world is like a prison. You have to control over many things like disco.
                      Joshua: You mean I can't go to disco!
                      Asgher: All these pleasure in this world look fine from far but are harmful.
                      Joshua: I only go to dance surely it can't be harmful.
                      Asgher: You will drink then maybe drugs and if not drugs then a lot of drinks and dancing then sleeping around with other girls.. the next thing you know is that you are HIV positive! And then you ask yourself how did I get this sickness?
                      Joshua: O come on. Not everyone gets AIDS.
                      Asgher: You are right. But look around , many do get this sickness and then you are doomed.
                      Joshua: I will take precaution.
                      Asgher: Not when one has too many to drink. And these things are harmful not only to your body but also spiritually. When you are sick you go to a doctor and if you are sick spiritually then it is very hard to get cured. There are things which we think are good but truly harmful.
                      Joshua: If I go to a movie, how will that harm me?
                      Asgher: If you do not copy it. You must have control , for example , the way you comb hair, who did you see?
                      Joshua: I copied an actor from a movie.
                      Asgher: So you see even your hairstyle is copied.
                      Joshua: But that's not harmful.
                      Asgher: No it is not, that's why I am telling you must control. Today you copied hairstyle tomorrow you will copy something else and this may lead you to copy something bad. So it is wise to stay aloof from some things in order to prevent any harm.
                      Joshua: So this means that one should not enjoy at all.
                      Asgher: No. Enjoy, relax, have fun. No one is stopping you, but do something good.
                      Joshua: But how does God know what is good for me or not?
                      Asgher: He has created you, do you think He does not know what is good or bad for His creation?
                      Joshua: Well, I am beginning to think there might after all be a God..
                      Asgher: That is not enough but you must also pray to Him.
                      Joshua: Okay if you say so..
                      Asgher: It is not because I say so but because He is worthy of worship!

                      Na Kabah mai na Be-tullah na dewaroun key sayoun mai, Namaz-e-Haq ada hotien hain Talwaroun key sayoun main


                        Thank you Bladegirl, that was nice


                          Welcome Girl

                          Na Kabah mai na Be-tullah na dewaroun key sayoun mai, Namaz-e-Haq ada hotien hain Talwaroun key sayoun main