can i get a simple reply to.....

[Nazia]

OK OK I know i tend to ask daft questions but (unfortunately) I am going to ask another to which I'd appreciate simple answers thanks.
How come in the West a guy thinks its OK to date a pakistani girl, even to sleep with her, and then still expect to get married to another girl who is a virgin? What happens to the no-longer-a-virgin Pakistani girl? Who marries her?

Waiting ......

[Muzna]

Nazia,

This topic is currently being discussed in the "Meeting People" section of Gup Shup.

[Mr. T]

Someone who does not know that she is not a virgin.

Humour aside, it is already an ongoing debate in another thread. You might be able to get some answers there.

[Najim]

I think this matter has already been discussed in detail under some other topic heading ... but Nazia .... first of all everyone should be careful in their deeds ... I remember when I was in high school our teacher (female) used to say that its woman who provokes man. So if a girls refuses to sleep with a man ... there is no chance for a man to sleep with a girl .... apart from raping her .... what do you say? ... so if she doesn't sleep she would be virgin and if she is followed by other women ... they will keep the men virgin ..... what do you say about it? Don think that I am being funny ... or I am taking or doing favour for men but I am talking logically .... every male or female is not an angel. But think what I have said .... You have to be very careful in these matters in life ....

[Nazia]

Tariq Jee, the topic whih you have mentioned does not have the answer to this particular quirey.
Najim Jee, my question is still relevant - you can talk about the future but what about the girls of NOW??

[Najim]

Someone does .... for sure. Mistakes can be forgiven but habits aren't.

[This message has been edited by Najim.]

[Muzna]

Nazia,

Unfortunately you will not be able to get a "simple" reply to this question. Najim has given the simplest possible: "Someone does." He is also right about the mistakes can be forgiven but habits aren't part -- that's a good approach for anyone to have about anything -- men and women both.

Najim, I appreciate your values, yes it is right that a girl can simply refuse to sleep with a man but why does it seem as if by following this method the entire responsibility lies on the girl's shoulders? Is she not a human with the same feelings and desires that her gender counterpart has?

I don't think that I agree with your high school teacher that claimed, " its woman who provokes man." This appears to be a mentality resulting from our social system -- a brainwashed approach that stems from years and years of inflicted guilt. It paints the female as a seductress/temptress and my mind just refuses to believe that this would always be the case. (Sometimes but not generally --- perhaps more in the west than the east anyway)

[Najim]

Unfortunately or strangefully that teacher was an old American Lady, Sylvia Brown, I still remember her name.

[farouq_taj]

Nazia:

Though your specific question is not answered the discussion does shed some light on the general theme.

I think that Pakistanis in the West are currently going through a transitional phase. Many of us are in a state where we have adopted some but not all Western values. Though I'm not suggesting we should make a clean break and adopt everything 'Western'.

You therefore end up with a situation where a Pakistani man is happy to date and sleep with a girl (a Western thing) but cannot accept a woman who has slept with another man as his wife (very Eastern).

There is also the usual hypocrisy/double standards that is so prevalent in our culture. A man can be forgiven indeed many boast of their sexual prowess whilst women are ostracised.

Another aspect I'd like to mention are the many Pakistani men who go through a period of dating girls and having a great time in the clubs of London and elsewhere and then suddenly they discover Islam. Having had their fun they decide it's time to get a wife and be a good Muslim. It is often these men that advocate Islamic values in a patronising 'I've been there and know all about the evils of the West' attitude. Imagine if a Pakistani girl did that !

Farouq Taj.

[Nazia]

Najim Jee, Muzna Jee, Yes you are both right in saying that someone marries the girl but how come most of the time the guy that she wants to marry and has slept with is the one who say's she's not good enough??

Farouq Jee, thanks for understanding what i was asking, it really makes a change!! and of course you are right in your reply stating that -
a Pakistani man is happy to date and sleep with a girl (a Western thing) but cannot accept a woman who has slept with another man as his wife (very Eastern)

but can you tell me why??



[This message has been edited by Nazia.]

[Najim]

I dont know why is that .... but you are right .... I have seen it most of the times ... boys refusing to marry the girls they were having affairs with ..... but you know what girl should do .... she should do the same ... she should look for a virgin husband .... tit for tat ... one very personal question ... "why are u asking all this"?

[Mr. T]

Nazia bibi

Aap kay tamaam sawaalon ka eik jawaab hai. All men are pigs, and they prefer being that way.

[Nazia]

Tariq Jee I would never have said anything like that about men and moreso not about you!
I suppose my problem is that I like men even though i have had some bad turns with them!!

[Mr. T]

Nazia
Thanks for not taking us as pigs. So you like men, eh (and I dont blame you, who doesn't. Hehehe).
Janaab, humain bhee larkian achchi lagtee hain, aur humaray saath bhee her larkee nay humesha kuch achcha sulook naheen kiya. Kum uz kum chaar khawateen to ubhee bhee yaad hain jin kee shadee kay din hum un kay shamyano(n) main ro ro kar kursiyaan laga rahay thay aur wo muskura muskura kar tasweerain khichwa rahee theen. Lekin dekhiyay humaree himmat, sinf-e-nazuk say abhee bhee mayoos naheen hain. Aap bhee himmat kijeeyay. Is duniya main bohot achchay log paray haain.

[MOHSAN]

Tariq: ....who doesn,t.
HEHEHe yaar ais tarah kee bateen sooch ker kia karoo, just kidding. Came back from nai, he was asking the date.

Nazia: I have said what I wanted to say in other thread. But to WHY? Different aspect of a man's thoughts come to mind. His dominant nature, urge to live or at least pretend to live future life in accordance to Islam, and last but not least, basic urge to do everything and not getting caught.

Since, as according to Farooq, totally agree with him, a man is switching from western thoughts to eastern, he thinks that "ok it was only me who was bad everybody else is living their lives in accordance to Islam," he can't bear the thought that world has been living on the same planet earth where he has been. So that raises the problem. The only solution that comes to mind is the education. Not just in schools but also education of social and cultural values, and Islamic prospective regarding to premrital sex and involvement. That goes same for both, men and women. This may prevent the problem before it araises.

If a man has used a girl, she is also to blame, she let it happen. You can't clap with a single hand, you have to have two hands. I have seen situations where girls started the whole thing.

There are two words in English one very difficult to say (SORRY) and other easy to ask (WHY).
You wouldn't get a sorry from a person who has done something wrong on purpose and if he/she says sorry he/she does not mean it. And you can ask me right now Why am I drinking coffee? Why I feel like drinking coffee? and so on and so on...

Just take the best answer you can get, that is the best solution I can suggest.
Ther are many thought regarding the situation of the girl, who has been used, once I can explain it I will post it. Till then
Allah Hafiz