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    I am a college student in america and there is this trend i have noticed here...(this is in regards to the pakistani's either born or raised abroad in a non-muslim society)don't know of how many of you are in college or about ready to go or been through this yourself but here is a story.....

    most of the pakistani and other muslims here who for the first time are away from their parents watchful eyes either take on an alter ego that noone back home knows about or stay the way they normally are....

    as far as i can see, the people who change, are those who have been kept under 'extreme' control that when they have the chance in a new place, independant from their parents where they cannot be caught, they go overboard....these are the pakistanis who were disciplined strictly about an exapmle, i have a friend who was disciplined HARSHLY for many minor things, now that he is in college, he's telling me about how he despises his parents and wants nothing to do with them.....he hasn't yet but plans to party all night, attend clubs, drink, have girls over, everything his parents have always discouraged by inciting fear!
    i mean he is practically a hafiz-al quran and calls azan in the masjid back home....but this was accomplished b/c his parents made him do it, he has no conviction in what he has been taught....
    there are many examples of ppl who have already crossed the edge and were raised up the same way, with a stick on their backs....
    and not just physical abuse but rather just so much control that the kid doesn't get to really experience right and wrong for themselves but are told about it instead...

    I mean i practically grew up with this kid for 15 years and know the family pretty well ...the older sibling did the same thing in college and did it out of spite....

    another person i know was a saint back home but took on a boyfriend in college, hung out with boys constantly and is now begining to realize her mistake...she was strictly stopped from even talking to boys back home and ironically she has never been physically disciplined by her parents; but, the same result has been accomplished by fear and control...

    but the ppl who don't change are those that had some freedom at home; i don't mean anything extreme but what i mean is that they are given decisions and encouraged to make the right one....they aren't as sheltered from the ways of the world and so i feel don't need to experience what has been they say curiosity killed the cat but if you have no curiosity, you live the full 9 lives....
    for example, i have lived outside pakistan since i was 5, i have no urge to disobey my parents and they know all that i do in college b/c i tell them....they trust me and i keep to their expectations...I mean i was disciplined for mistakes but i was also told why and it wasn't b/c of fear of what my parents would do, i obeyed b/c i knew right from wrong...

    But more and more young ppl are losing their pakistani identity and becoming like the westerners and want to do the same thing...i think it is the parents fault from not know what's going on and also b/c they don't know how to raise them correctly in this new enviroment...

    Here you will see different opinions, different people saying different things but I think you are absolutely right. We are not living in a stone age and the more lava is cooked the more abruptly it comes out. Same happens here. When I was in Uni there used to be a Pakistani girl, she was sent back to Pakistan when she was 4 to learn pakistani way of living and etc. etc. Her father has got at least 15 inches long beard and he prays five times in mosque. I have never seen her mothers face because she is always in burqah/hijaab and the girl (with her mother, because the whole family except fateher went back to Pakistan) came back to England when she was 15. Now she is around 19. She is not allowed to watch television soaps or English dramas, she must have to return home by 20:00 pm. And she is not allowed to give her home phone number to any of her friend. Now what she is doing, she has her own mobile phone which he hides when she reaches home and turns the bell off at home. She leaves home in regular dress with hijaab on her head and then in Uni she changes the dress to mini skirt etc. She doesn't like to have oral but she think penetrative is okay and she loves it .... at least twice is day is good for her health .... because she has 11 boy friends different nationality, colours and religions. She started it when she was in college, she was 16 then.

    Now how do I know all this about her, actually she used to be the girl friend of my friend he was from Nigeria (and now has gone back there) and i met her through him. She told me she lived in a suffocated atmosphere and she is still living in that atmosphere. She rebelled against that and now when she got the chance she wanted to do all that she was stopped from because of strict parental supervision. I asked her did she have any idea why did her parent stop her from all this, she said no idea, but she was restricted to pray for five times reading Quran and not doing anything else while she used to see English girls doing everything, having BFs and drinking etc etc. She wanted to have all this and now she is enjoying her life.

    Now tell whats the benefit of going to mosque for five time if the father of that girl didn't explain to her that why they are stopping her from all this. I think parents should talk to the kids tell them not to do this because there is a logic behind all this and then give them a little bit freedom. Otherwise we see these types of rebels ...... hypocrtes .... who leave home with hijaab on their head and then you see them in mini skirts all the day (if you are of the same class then you might see them without clothes) and they enter home with hijaab on their head.

    Now Masha-Allah boys are not behind girls .... they are busy in smoking dope ... drinking ... all other haram stuff etc etc ... and they are hypocrate as well they go home and tell their parents they are the most religious and straight persons in the whole universe.

    We need to work this out not by restricting them but by telling them using logic explaining not to do it because what could be the prospective problems for them ... why have they been prohibited in our religions and what difficulties they will have to face not abiding by the religion. The parents should talk about all this not simply ignore and think the child will not do it ... he/she will as soon as he/she gets a chance. Burai to waisay bhee attract kartee hay.



      Thank you Richsaw and Najim for your excellent posts. I wonder if there is a way to highlight this topic . . .should be mandatory reading for all -- perhaps especially for those parents that live in ignorance of what their children are doing.

      Our society has never been very good at parenting. . . we need much improvement in this area.

      The origin of education in our culture comes from teaching religion. It appears to me that the methods used to relay the message of faith was "fear of Allah and his punishment". This was done to gain obedience. Unfortunately the problem with this theory is that the very basic principle of Islam is not obedience but submission -- a subtle but noticeable difference lies between the two. This technique was extended into the family unit where the parents would be the authority to be "feared".

      Is it agreed that we need to change our approach to parenting in order to make a dent in this problem?


        I agree with the fundamental problem being
        described here. Though I note Najim's
        mention of the girls sexual preference
        was unecessary and unfair to the girl who
        is not here to defend herself.

        There is a huge gulf between the first
        generation of parents and their second
        generation of children. I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum the fact that even the first languages of the two differ. At home the parents and children communicate in a native tongue whilst the children 'think' and communicate in English.

        Pakistani parents in the UK simply do not understand their children nor the society in which they live in.

        Farouq Taj.


          yes there should be something done to 'educate' parents of what is going on and what could happen with their 'good/islamic' kids when they have thie freedom. I suspect that ppl don't even fathom what happens with their children when let loose. There should be many changes made but i don't have the answers or solutions, maybe with this discussion something could be done to make ppl more aware of this problem...


            Thanks for mentioning that I said something when she is not here to defend herself, actually I said all this on her face and she said "ITS MY LIFE, WHO ARE U TO SAY ANYTHING TO ME". I did give her to defend her the chance but ............. she didn't want it.


              I agree with you that parents must give the logic lying behind the philosophy of saying no. Do not just no tell them why it no and why not,give examples and reasons, for that purpose we have to train our parents.


                I agree with you that parents must give the logic lying behind the philosophy of saying no. Do not just say no, tell their kids why it is no and why not,give examples and reasons, for that purpose we have to train our parents.