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    Shia-Sunni Relations After Nawaz

    I volunteer for an organization that helps failed refugee claimants with their appeals. Some claims coming into our office relate to shia's in Pakistan who are claiming the "new" government either 1) is involved in the persecution of shia's or 2) stands idle while others persecute them. In order for us to help them, we need evidence that corrobarates their claims. Ideally in order for a claim to be successful the claimant must prove that returning to Pakistan would be a threat to their life or lead to unlawful imprisonment or persecution.

    Do any of you have any thought about Shia-Sunni relations and the current government. Have things changed for the worse/better since the removal of Nawaz? Who are the main groups involved in the violence (Sip-e-sahaba and Tehrik-jaferia?) If you have any websites with information, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

    Achtung

    #2
    When the rest of the world has entered the millenium and a new century, at times it is so unbelieveable to think that we still have this shia'- sunni issue going around. Islam is Islam. Anyone who reads the Kalima can not be called a non muslim. Unless, they are engaged in Kufarana actions. What our people need to do is to get over dissecting each other's religions and beliefs. This shia' sunni, Sindhi, Punjabi, Pathan, Balochi and so forth conflicts have gone a bit too far. All Pakistanis need to come together as PAKISTANIS regardless of race, religion, beliefs, and work together for the overall benefit and advantage of Pakistan. There are more important issues within our own country and related to our country which needs all this energy and effort which we are wasting on other petty matters.

    Comment


      #3

      Dear RareDiamonds,

      All Pakistanis need to come together as PAKISTANIS regardless of race, religion, beliefs, and work together for the overall benefit and advantage of Pakistan.
      no offence, but you seemed pretty negative regarding the same issue when it came to india (thread on indian muslims). you didnt believe indian muslims could be patriotic. the exact words being:

      I can not think and I am sure NO ONE will be able to find a muslim in India who would be favoring Hindus..or sikhs...
      just couldnt resist pointing that out. to unity in your country and mine!

      p.s.>all my muslim classmates and neighbours are pretty patriotic.

      Achtung,

      long time no see is that your real pic? and sorry about the diversion..
      Simple ain't easy.

      Comment


        #4
        Queer, your devious services are not required in this thread. No need to show off your true colors, so shut up and chill!

        Achtung, there were recent killings of some prominent Shia and Sunni leaders in Karachi and Lahore, few weeks ago. These tit-for-tat killings were the only re-occurrence of Shia-Sunni dispute during the present regime. However, this onset was swiftly neatralized. You may find helpful information in the past issues of the Dawn Internet edition.

        I have worked with some refugees in the past and, I found IRB's documentation center to be extremely helpful. If you are not familiar with it, there you can find regularly updated information from the local Pakistani newspapers. You can also find helpful evidence through numerous other independent journals and queries.

        As far as my own opiniong goes, relations have vastly improved on a much more broader scale. Sipah-e-Sahaba and Tehrik-e-Jaffaria aren't in a sourceful position anymore to carryout these rampages. This has been achieved by exhausting their financial sources from other countries. I think ISI and other local intellegence agencies have done a
        hatchet-job on clamping down these terrorist wings of the religious party.

        Improvement of mutual relations between Pakistan, Iran and Saudi-Arabia is another key reason. Gen Musharraf is presently in Iran ,and has seeked Iran's co-operation to promote ties based upon ECO. Therefore, it's
        wise to say that political and economical gains for Iran( which has been a financer of
        of Tehrik-e-Jaffria)by strengthing ties with the Pakistani regime outweighs any minimal influence on the Pakistani shias, which it intended to seek, initially.

        If you need any more help, I'ld be glad to do so..






        [This message has been edited by outlaw (edited June 10, 2000).]

        Comment


          #5
          Queer,

          You say,
          "you didnt believe indian muslims could be patriotic..."

          Tsk! tsk! Naughty Musalmaans...those rishtadaars of mine!! trying to be Patriotic to India...

          What "Amrit" have you been offering them...?
          At the mention of the phrase "chill", hope not the "Chilled" kind...*smile*

          P.S.
          I am wondering, if Pakistanis were aware of this concept of "Unity", would Achtung be posting this thread?
          and would there be two parts to Pakistan today...?..

          Comment


            #6

            dehatan,

            you ought to get the custom title "Dehatan - the tension defuser" http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif

            but seriously, saying indian muslim cant be patriotic is insulting indian muslims.. afterall, it's their country too..

            and yup, a lil bit of halaal amrit helps
            Simple ain't easy.

            Comment


              #7
              >>Queer, your devious services are not required in this thread. No need to show off your true colors, so shut up and chill!<<

              What are your true colors, queer is merely pointing the discrepancy of Achtung's behavior and his self serving talk. If there is trouble and unrest in India, Indian muslims would be equally effected along with all other Indian citizens. They should care more about their home and homeland than Pakistan. It should not surprise anybody that they do. It is a human trait to gaurd ones territory whether you are muslim or not.

              I think you should take your advice 'chill and shut up sometimes'.



              [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 10, 2000).]

              Comment


                #8
                well.. anyone who says indian muslims are not patriotic is not helping them. in fact the hindutwa parties claim precisely that. in the early years after partition, there was definitely support for pakistan in indian muslims. afterall, muslims of UP and Bihar alongwith bengalis were the ones who were at forefront in Pakistan movement and Punjabis joined last. now ironically, punjabis form the core of pakistan.

                but given the case of bihari muslims in bangladesh who have been 'na ghar ka na ghat ka', claiming indian muslims are agianst india will only put them in trouble.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I am pretty sure that the situation between Sunnis and Shias has improved in the last couple of years. The new regime will help in that regard. The odd shooting and bomb blast has to be expected, b/c as we can see from their activities on thes forums, MOST of the Indians here are very keen to project a divide between the two different schools of thought.

                  At least in Pakistan the Shias/Sunnis don't have to worry about the State police and paramilitaries waging war against them like the muslims in India do as can be witnessed in Occupied Kashmir.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Mr. Xtreme there was a post 'difference between shias and muslims' in religion forum. was it by u?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I don't remember any such post - why don't you do a search for it re-open it? That way evreybody can see for themselves.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ya.. i found it and opened it again. it was not by u. but u had ur share of shia bashing.

                        Queer, I think Achtung is putting Che Guevera as his icon. Am i right? disappointing. i felt it would be Mulla Omar.

                        [This message has been edited by ZZ (edited June 10, 2000).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You see aside from everythng, religion and politics never had a good correlation with each other. In our country, political leaders use this hatred among people whether it's sindhi aur punjabi, pathan aur mahajir to keep people busy fighting among them so that they can cash Pakistan out to extend their already huge assests and send their kids to Harvard or other most expensive education institutes, all on the nation's money that should be used to better the worse living conditions, education, and for the people who earned it.

                          Shia-Sunni conflict is not a new story. Every year near the occuraace of Muharram and following, there's always a blood bath in major cities. Ironically, people who get killed are usually those poeple who have no connection whatsoever with any of the organization or who have been killed in the place of another.(similar names or looks)

                          No one pays attention to those Afghanis who have provided refuge in our country in the decade of 80s. They brought years of civil war,oppression, heroin, opium, weapons, hatred and merciless killing and stung our nation with this leathal poison that completly destroyed our country and shattered it. It was only then when a chain reaction of all kinds of massive killings, robberies, and hostility began and still continuing...at a large scale.

                          [This message has been edited by eva1921 (edited June 11, 2000).]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Achtung asked a single question and I supplied a single answer. Now what is going on in other posts should be left there. What was mentioned in the post regarding Indian muslims....that is just garbage. That's all it is. Even IF muslims living in India favor India...which I seriously doubt..but even IF they do..by a slight margin, then I would feel sorry for them. I DON'T LIVE IN INDIA, I DON'T OWE INDIA ANYTHING AND THEREFORE I DON'T FEEL THAT I HAVE TO BE PATRIOTIC..TOWARDS SOME IGNORANT COUNTRY WHICH STILL WORSHIPS..STONES!! And the other thing...this post was started as a discussion considering the Shia sunni issue in Pakistan....why do you have to bring your stinky India..in the middle of everything..GET A LIFE.

                            [This message has been edited by Rarediamonds & Gold (edited June 11, 2000).]

                            Comment


                              #15

                              thanx, rare.. you got the right attitude. i dont see why all pakistanis cant be as mature as you, and handle differences sensibly..
                              Simple ain't easy.

                              Comment

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