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    Class Difference in Population

    So far this is just an observation...I have much more experimenting to do before I draw firm conclusions.......


    There exists a huge difference in the classes of desis that reside in UK and North America.

    This causes a vast difference in the social issues and lifestyles that prevail in both places. (e.g. Cases of forced marriage are more commonly found in UK while rare in NA)

    One particular phenomenon that I've found is that its okay to be "Indian" but not so okay to be counted among "Pakistanis".

    Anyone else face this or have thoughts on the subject?


    #2
    Muzna I think all desi classes exist in both UK and North America. although the ratios are different but this seems to be changing. the average desi profile in canada for example, has changed drastically in the last 10-15 years.

    Its the exact same phenomenon that was observed in middle east as well, initially professionals constituted the majority of the desi population and then you had more of the working class appear which not only changed the whole dynamics of the desi society there but also how they were viewed by locals.

    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    Comment


      #3
      Kia bore log ho yaar aap log, specially you Muz, it is 79oF, and hot shiny day, and making people more bore http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif


      halllaaaaaaa gullaaaaaaaaa

      Comment


        #4
        This topic really interests me..I know fraudiya and NYahmadhi have spent a good amount of time in UK to be able to comment on this more and shed some Halojen Roshni. Is it true that the majority of desis residing in UK were brought in as laborers during the middle of the century? This may reflect the social and educational background of these immigrants. Pls. comment.

        One particular phenomenon that I've found is that its okay to be "Indian" but not so okay to be counted among "Pakistanis".
        Muzna, can you talk a bit more about what exactly you meant by this?

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          #5
          oh and one more thing I particularly want to know is that are Brits more prejudice compared to American, generally speaking? I hear this a lot from many people but am curious if it is a general opinion or just experiences of the few???

          Comment


            #6
            Not majority. From what my dad tells me. Most desis in the UK back then were students and professionals. (he went to school in UK bck in 1959)

            The influx started in the mid 60's for blue collar desi workers. Around the same time the desi small business owners started to take hold and due to the easy immigration had their whole khandaans come over.

            The situation is changing in North America as well. Surely anyone who has walked the length of Gerard Street in Toronto or been in Markham area, or seen Devon in Chicago or Jackson Heights in NY or Islin in NJ would not say that an overwhelming majority of professionals still exists.

            As far as the indian vs pakistani argument goes. There were, and still are the types of Pakistanis in the UK that are still living in the 1800s and came directly from some far off backwater village with a set of values dictated to them which they hold near and dear to them as religion, which it is not. These are the same type of people that would stick out like sore thumbs in Pakistani cities.

            Since the influx of this group was so bad. It was this group that dictated the Paki image. backwards, narrowminded, too alien, bad hygiene, lack of social skills, inherent disliking of the locals etc etc.

            Thats when the word Paki "originated" as a racial slur. To avoid being stereotyped as a paki, a number of people just called themselves indian. Also since indians as a group had less reservations about dating, drinking and socializing the stigma would be reduced.

            The fact is that Pakistanis in UK are just like Pakistanis in Pakistan. and the social structure and ratio is similar as well.

            You will see many very well off, and very prominent pakistanis in business, academia, government etc, but at the same time there are pakistanis on the dole and doing odd jobs etc. Its a more representative population of Pakistan.

            If you look at Pakistan, what is the average Pakistani? We always think of the people we deal with and maybe other people that we see in the city. Never thinking about the millions of people that have almost become "non people" to us becuase we dont have any interaction with them on a social basis.

            When I think of an average pakistani, I first think of Affluent urbanites...and then say nyah they are a small group and think of more modest areas in the city and set them as a benchmark.

            But the fact is even I am unable to factor in the average pakistani...I dont think of conductors and small street peddlers in it, or even the local Kiryana store clerk.

            We keep all these factors in mind and we will see that we have a flawed image of who is an average joe (or javed) Pakistani.

            Anyways..this is getting too long and I am rambling on, but ya get what I am saying right.

            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

            Comment


              #7
              hum faltu nahee , humaray paas faltuu time nahee.... http://www.pak.org/gupshup/rolleyes.gif
              itnaa saara likh dia, phir bhee faltuu time nahee http://www.pak.org/gupshup/pukey.gif hunhh

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                #8
                chup gustakh. No faltu time because I was writing a sensible piece here.

                your pal x factor is back so go bug him now.

                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

                Comment


                  #10
                  My views on this are pretty much what Fraudia has stated. In terms of Roman’s inquiry about who is more prejudiced, Americans or British. We need to keep things in perspective. The reasons Pakistanis and Indians feel that way in England is because not only they fall into “immigrant” category but also in “ex-colonial slave” one. Latinos and Blacks feel in North America, what South Asian feel in UK, North Africans in France, and so on. So that’s the additional dimension.

                  Fraud Yar, things are changing for the better now. I feel a difference between when I first came here, some 12 years ago and now. I believe that the next generation of South Asians in UK and in USA will be the most ambitious and the one with most contribution to global society. It is happening already in the Tech sector.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    I think its easier to define Average American or Average English (lingo?) than an Average Pakistani or Indian. Its is mainly due to the fact that variety of cultures and languages that exist in pakistan or in India (even more diverse than pakistan) blur the image of what an average citizen should be. Is it the one who resides in a village and earns his living by working in the field or as day laborer or is the one who works in the office in the city with a modest home and income? We're exposed to the urban dwellers as well as villagers and the shear number of these two groups makes it harder to come to a reasonable conclusion.

                    So, according to Fraudiya, the mixed bag of immigrants somewhat represents the immigration transformation thats been going on in the US. The early immigrants to US were mostly professionals with strong educational and financial credentials. The influx of 'average-javed' started in the 80's and exploded in the late 80's and early 90's.

                    The disparity between the various classes is not very apparent in the US, aleast from my observations. I think its mainly due to the more casual and liberal environment of US than that of more formal and uptight environment of UK.

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