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    What if you slept?

    "What if you slept? And what if, in you sleep, you dreamed? And what if, in you dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?" Coleridge.

    Novalis once said 'the world becomes a dream, and the dream a reality'.

    Is this true?

    We strive to fulfill our dreams…but how 'real' are our dreams? Or is it all our imagination..both out reality and our dreams.


    [This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited July 11, 1999).]

    #2
    Someone once said, "felicity is in prospering, not in having prospered"... Same is the case with life... Its meanings are hidden in its passing moments, not in a big, whole lump-sump of it.

    Every time we try to come up with the answer to life, we are making a very fundamental mistake. Life is what comes as it is, and it should be lived as it comes (except for "donating" to your 401k, that's important, you always want to leave some money for your relatives when you die, they would remember you as one of their "rich uncles" )

    We can use as many mataphors for life as we want, and every single one of them would be as fitting as any other ones. But I think the true rejoice in defining the life dwells in the very moment when you feel it.

    Today was the day when I tried sushi for the first time. Today was the day, when on a sunny Sunday, my friend Martin pulled off my shirt forcibly in front of a super market and a few spectators since he was not wearing any shirt and I happen to be wearing an under-shirt and a collared one on top of it... and he could not go inside the super-market shirtless. Today was the day when I went inside a super market wearing my shorts and an under-shirt (guess what are the odds of that happening… again?) and when Martin, I, and Joemel came out of the super market, we were laughing our butts off on the whole thing. And then Martin said, "We have a life, don't we?" And yeah, that was true.

    Last night I was in one of my intensive gloomy mood swings, and I defined life as a, well, you know what. Today, I had a great time and standing outside that super market, I defined life as wonderful... I was right at both times because that's how life seemed like on both occasions. And at both times, life rendered itself to me with the tint of its potential extremities... and that's exactly when the definitions of life came natural to me... and that's exactly when I want to feel it, with its fullest essence.

    Sitting here now, in front of my computer and looking at the junk surrounding my computer desk and dinning table, I cannot possibly be justifying anyone of the definitions of life... as it is too normal, too usual, and too, well, unorganized.

    All of the above rambling means that there is no "overall" or "definite" definition of life... When we have one of those dreams where you see your end, or realization of a fragile existence, and wake up with the fullest awareness of it, living through every single second of its post-dreamatic (is that a word?) effect, then, yeah, you can say life is a dream... or when life hits you hard with one of its cruel realities (denial of you adjustment of status application by immigration, for example) then you can term life as a reality.

    So whatever definition of life you have, I would accept it as valid, as long as it was an aftermath of the very moment when you felt it.

    God, what a meaningless rambling… I need to get a life!

    Comment


      #3
      http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

      Comment


        #4
        Oh, God, did I replied to the wrong thread or something.... it's the most irrelevent post I have ever put up there! I knew something weird happens to my brain on Sunday evenings....

        Comment


          #5
          All dreams dont materialize. Fact!

          In American terms, a dream is a goal. A goal that is terribly important to be won.

          And in Fata Morgana's term, a goal is not always necessarily means to be achieved. It simply serves as an aim.

          I am Fata Morgana

          Comment


            #6
            Irrelevent?!!

            But isn't life like that...sometimes?


            Forget the dream...and exist in reality...or.....make your dreams your reality or non of the above...

            Honestly...don't know know where i'm going with this one guys.

            Comment


              #7
              Or Virtual reality

              Comment


                #8
                "Life is irrelevant"... wow, I just found the true meaning of life!!!

                Bravo, Kash

                Comment


                  #9
                  > Honestly...don't know know where i'm going with this one guys.

                  KG: I noticed that, dear. What you need to do is watch (& use them as springboard) the following movies. The order is important:
                  1. Brazil
                  2. Dark City
                  3. Brazil
                  4. Matrix
                  5. Brazil
                  6. Total Recall

                  Ofcourse, I'm volunteering to sit next to you and hold your hand (just to walk you through) during the movie sessions. When should we do this ??


                  Roman - compliments will get you everywhere - unless, ofcourse, Devuchka is around.
                  Meaningless rambling ??? BINGO !!! Sunday evening only ??? probably not.

                  Dev "things_are_about_as_real_as_you_make_them" Uchka.


                  ------------------
                  Getting UNeducated is better than getting RAGged - Maulana Dev Photonvi.



                  [This message has been edited by devuchka (edited July 13, 1999).]

                  Comment


                    #10


                    What if u slept? And what if in sleep u dreamt? And What if in ur dream u went to heaven and there u plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if when u awoke u have that flower in ur hand? Aah what then?-Coleridge.
                    Aah what the man dreamt about his dream and what he got in reality.
                    The Man was deceived by his so called friend WoodsWorth and his sis, was kept under drugs and all his dreams, his poetry, were stolen and when the Man woke up he had nothing but deaths in his hand.
                    Yeah those were deaths. Death of his Feelings, Death Of His Dreams, Death Of His Poetry.

                    Aah the poor Man while saying the quoted lines never knew that what the game his fate/his life is going to play with him.
                    He dreamt just like everybody do.
                    Yeah those are only dreams on which everybody has a right, rich, poor, elders, children, everybody can have them. Everybody can dream according to his own will.

                    But in Real Life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                    Nay Man Life Is Not A Dream!
                    And Knowing Life Is The Most Bitter Reality for a Person. Thatz why most of the ppl dont try to get in the depth of life just cuz they dont wanna taste this bitter Reality. They dream so as to get rid of the frustrations they have in real Life.

                    And Coleridge! Oh Man, he was so Innocent. He didnt know that *U can dream about the things u wish to have in ur life but most of the time u cant have them, cant even touch them in ur Life!*--Quoted from the Book Some Things Stupid By Samreen! http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif

                    Dream Is Just A Dream And Nothing!

                    Samreen!



                    [This message has been edited by SAMREEN (edited July 13, 1999).]

                    Comment


                      #11

                      So Whatever Defination Of Life You Have, I Would Accept It As Valid, As Long As It Was An Aftermath Of The Very Moment When U Felt It!
                      Man O'Man Roman Man!
                      Just Luv Ur Theory!
                      But Sorry to know about its irrelevancy!

                      [This message has been edited by SAMREEN (edited July 13, 1999).]

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Samreen
                        ………..And Knowing Life Is The Most Bitter Reality for a Person. Thatz why most of the ppl
                        dont try to get in the depth of life just cuz they dont wanna taste this bitter Reality.
                        They dream so as to get rid of the frustrations they have in real Life…..

                        True…but maybe dreams are the only way which we can cope with the 'bitter reality'. Otherwise…very well said.

                        Roman..
                        Heheh sure…if it was only that easy.…..

                        Dev…
                        Hand holding Asthakfurallah… I don't think so….hmmmm a date? Will have to check my appointment book and let you know.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          > Dev…Hand holding Asthakfurallah… I don't think so….hmmmm a date?
                          > Will have to check my appointment book and let you know.

                          Date ??? lahaul paRho .. I was only planning to help you solve the intricate mysteries of perception vs. reality - being an avid student myself.

                          As for the hand holding, that was only so that you don't get lost - it is a complex thought, you know.

                          Seriously though - it'd be fun ... granted I dont b.s tons of pages on the topic or fill paragraphs with meaningless sunday night drivel, I can certainly share a braincell or two on this one ... you'd feel like you smoked a magic mushroom without actually smoking one.

                          Dev "isssssmoking" Uchka.
                          ps: sorry .. being not very bright, braincell or two is all I can afford. For smarter descriptions, contact Roman.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            *clap* *clap* *clap* I guess I'll resume on clapping for what Roman have said here. Now didn't I told u something like not being that mere stone in rest of the batch. See... U proved it! *Proud of U* Clap! Clap!

                            Till then,
                            Adios!
                            DB

                            Comment


                              #15
                              devuchka: Agree with your list as far as Brazil is concerned... that's 2 1/2 hours of my life I can never get back! I have no idea how it made to being 125th among 250 top movies as voted by users on IMDB... too much symbolism for my bones.

                              > compliments will get you everywhere - unless, ofcourse, Devuchka is around.

                              ‘Have no clue what you mean by that... However, I don't find myself too curious about it either.

                              > Meaningless rambling ??? BINGO !!! Sunday evening only ??? probably not.

                              Good ones

                              > granted I dont b.s tons of pages on the topic or fill paragraphs with meaningless sunday night drivel....

                              Opinionative, huh? Now that comes with heavy duty responsibility... unless, of course, one decides to avoid it intentionally, in which case it’s worthless.

                              SAMREEN: Well, it’s just a theory… it depends upon person to person on how imperatively one takes it… I think what important is, is not to forget to pause right in the middle of a mode of grief or joy, for a very brief moment, to come in terms with one’s self and its state of existence… and if there is anything called ‘reality’ exists then that brief moment is a big chunk of it.
                              However, can’t say much about dreams… as I usually have nightmares.

                              And, yep, Dev, it’s my Wednesday lunch-hour drivel.

                              DB: Maufi dey do baba… ‘will never ask any explanation about stones, batch, and diamond…. ever, ever again. My pretentious self tells me that now that you are proud of me, I should not reveal my true self to turn your pride into an expression of ‘ashamed of you’ kind of thing… knowing myself as much as I do, I guess I will go as far as couple of more posts!

                              Kash: Coming right back to the topic at hand, our dreams are always real…. ‘Haven’t you heard “I dream therefore I am”? Dream is just another mode of a thought, whether done consciously or unconsciously (in my case that would be drunkadly-unconsciously) and as long as human thought exists, reality exists.

                              Now, chances of what we see in dreams becoming real or not is a matter of reality in itself: The fact that what we see in dreams CANNOT BE/IS NOT achieved or attained (except for my dream of being able to fly one day… I still think it’s gonna happen) is a piece of reality itself, same as the flipped side fact of those things that we see in dreams (or dream about) that CAN BE/ARE achieved or attained (refer to my parenthesized example on being able to fly one day for example), or actually happen at some point in our lives (Yeah, I always had a dream that I would come to America and on a fine Wednesday afternoon lunch break, would “drivel” cluelessly), are pieces of reality.

                              In other, more abstract words, when Coleridge said
                              What if you slept? And what if, in you sleep, you dreamed? And what if, in you dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?
                              Whether or not you would have a flower in your hand, it would be real either way.

                              Same is the case with Novalis, If one wishes or longs for the world to exist in a certain state, whether or not that “certain state” already exists, whether or not this longing or wishing done consciously, the world is a dream… and since existence of a dream is a reality itself (again, whether or not that dream comes true), “that dream a reality” holds true as Novalis puts it.

                              Now, to answer questions you raised in
                              We strive to fulfill our dreams…but how 'real' are our dreams? Or is it all our imagination..
                              I would think that our dreams are as real as any other thought that passes through our minds, and leaves its imprints in the form of a modified memory structure… same as it is the case with our imagination.

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