Girls getting raped

[SERHAT]

I just came upon one interesting statistic.. why is that in America there is so much hue and cry about rapes and sexual abuse when only 7 out of 20 girls are found to be victims of some form of abuse or another during their childhood or adolescent years!!

The figures in Pakistan are much more appaling and there is no voice for concern over here!!

What if a victim comes 10 years down the line and kills the abuser!! Aint that like poetic justice!!

I find it really sick!

Serhat


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Your soul may belong to the lord but your A$$ is mine

[Sherlock]

good point.its pretty simple.girls in pakistan are too chicken to report a rape because

a.their so-called brothers would rather prefer to see them dead than having to live with a sister who has been abused.

b.the justice system in pakistan is as pathetic as you can find.

c.the rapist is usually some loser with a lot of contacts.

etc


point is,there are a lot of girls getting raped in pakistan but because of a variety of reasons,no one makes it an issue.as for them seeking revenge,i doubt whether a girl has the balls to do that!!!

[NYAhmadiX]

Dear Serhat,

Excellent topic!
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Dear Sherlock,

What a stupid thing to say "whether a girl has a ball to do that". I hope you don't meant that. Taking revenge is an act of cowardliness. No one in his or her right mind can think that any punishment that is suitable enough (in terms for it to constitute a revenge) for a rapist. What would you do? Rape the rapist?

The victims are actually victimized twice in our society. First by the act itself, and secondly by becoming an eyesore by the family and the society in general (as you very well point out). So much so, that there is no term to describe "rape" in many of the regional dialects of Pakistan. There is an Urdu term to describe it. But that term when translated literally means "Forced Adultery". What a shame. Our society is being raped by backward looking norms. Everyday.

[dilse]

Serhat...adab..the other resaon why girls who get raped in Pakistan dosent report is that for sharam and haya,the girls think that if they report this to anyone,they will be looked very low,and will never be able to get married to anyone,also the society will degrade them to very low profile or class,also there own family like parents and brother will think,it is an insult for the family and try to kill the girl,it is bechari larki who has to suffer....I dont know when this will stop in Pakistan and the larkis will have chance to come out in public and try to get the culprit,and get those ******* hang,no question asked.
I really feel sorry for those majboor girls(larkian)

dil...dilseeee

[Shehzada]

No girl in Pakistan is chickening out or doing anything of that sort. Infact Pakistani girls are just trying to protect the honor and izzath that WE men hold so dear. Shame on us. Equating Honor with Women is an ancient and pathetic idea.

[This message has been edited by Shehzada (edited July 06, 1999).]

[Sherlock]

ny ahmadi

you obviously did not get what i was saying.
anyway raping a rapist is one thing to do the other could be to send him across to Bobbitt or simply to chop his head off.that should do.

dilse

i think i just said that.oh well.

[PakiPowder]

But this is a true fact and by the way pakistani women dont have equal rights as men, women are 2nd class citizens.

[dilse]

Well the american way rape is,agar kohi admi kise ko kiss kar liya zabardasti,they call it rape,kise ko zabardasti hug kar liys it is rape,husband try to make love they call it rape.....it is confusing ...

dil..dilseeee

[Zahid Sindhu]

Interesting topic.
Makes your belief in the Islamic punishment for such crimes all the stronger, doesn't it?

>Food for thought<
On the risk of being somewhat off topic...
What I do not understand is, if crimes like these are considered savage and people feel so strongly about them, why is the above mentioned punishment (sungsaar / durra's) for the crime, proposed by Islam, frowned upon and considered in-humane by most?

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Zahid N. Sindhu
PakistanX Dot Com - The One Stop Desi Resource

[NYAhmadiX]

Dear Zahid Sindhu,

It is inhumane for various reasons. One of which is that if the victim (woman) reports the crime, it is only considered to be ½ truth. Secondly, the victim will need to produce 2 witnesses (males) to seek justice. Thirdly, by admitting that she was rapped, she will be inviting greater curse on herself from her own household as well as the society in general (only if she lived in a backward society, of course). Fourthly, it is just barbaric to stone someone to death. Life imprisonment is a much better alternative (in addition to pronouncing victim's testimony as FULL truth, EQUAL witness as a male). Before talking about Islamic Justice and Punishment, it will be nice to set the same rules across Gender lines. Justice without equality is a Mockery of Law. Shariah is no different than the Jirgas in rural Pakistan.

[Zahid Sindhu]

NYAhmadi,

It is inhumane for various reasons. One of which is that if the victim (woman) reports the crime, it is only considered to be ½ truth. Secondly, the victim will need to produce 2 witnesses (males) to seek justice. Thirdly, by admitting that she was rapped, she will be inviting greater curse on herself from her own household as well as the society in general (only if she lived in a backward society, of course).

I'm sorry, but I think we all agree to the above, being that, it still doesn't answer my question as to why capital punishment for this crime is frowned upon when it is agreed that the crime is horrific.

Fourthly, it is just barbaric to stone someone to death. Life imprisonment is a much better alternative (in addition to pronouncing victim's testimony as FULL truth, EQUAL witness as a male).

Oh, I see, it is barbaric to stone someone to death for rape but it is civilized to let that person live and insure his security with the taxpayer's money? And maybe risk the chance of letting the rapist loose on the streets, lets say after 10 years max., to continue his spree of rape and possible murder?

As to the mention of the testimonies of women in both the above mentioned quotes. Islam has put forth a relaxation to this rule in this type of a case where merely the testimony of the woman with minimal evidence is sufficient to condem the offender.

Shariah is no different than the Jirgas in rural Pakistan.

What you propose here is similar to putting the judgement of an illiterate construction worker equal to that of a learned judicial body!

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My two cents worth.

Zahid N. Sindhu
PakistanX Dot Com - The One Stop Desi Resource


[This message has been edited by Zahid Sindhu (edited July 09, 1999).]

[Ananya]

dilse commented : 'husband try to make love they call it rape.....it is confusing ...'

well, what if wife doesn't want to? forcing himself on wife wouldn't be called 'making love', surely ? without mutual consent it IS rape, whether a boyfriend does it or husband or someone else.

[NYAhmadiX]

Dear Zahid Sindhu

If that learned judicial body makes rules that do not include the "say" of that "illiterate construction worker", those rules should only be applied to that "learned judicial body". Secondly, life imprisonment does not mean letting out after 10 years. Also, no matter what the crime or the consequence, how can one think of stoning a living person to death as a civilized behavior? I have some basic problems with the whole concept of Shariah Law, we can discuss that in "religion" section, if you like. My fundamental criticism is that the laws applied to people should be made by people. Not to say that all Shariah laws are somehow bad. It is just like I can never sympathize with a Dictator no matter how good he might be. I will take a corrupt "elected" leader anytime over a most humble Dictator. Just different philosophies here my friend.

The reason I compared Shariah with Jirga is because both these bodies exclude a Jury of peers. Which is as important an element of Jurisprudence as a presence of the sound Laws itself. In Shariah, the arbitrator is given "godlike" status to decide (based upon his own interpretation of the law) a sentence, same holds in Jirga courts, where a feudal lord will decide whatever he may think should be the punishment. In short, two much power is concentrated in the hand of the arbitrator. There is also an absence of any appeal process. One more thing, both these bodies exclude female judges, just a little icing on the cake!

[714]

dear dilse-
no offense, i'd like to corect you. kissing and hugging bu force is harrassment. minor crime. If for soem reason wife doesn't want to have sex and the huband beats her or forces it then it is a rape. here girls and boys are molested, raped, or abused. here they try to care of it but the problem in muslim countries is that they consider it to be the gilrs fault too. they wnat to kick them out of the house and are ashamed by them. this is not right. In islam rape is a very big crime, excusme for saying this, but to punish a rape maybe is the actual organ should be chopped off.

[dilse]

quaide no 714,i am just kidding,naraz mat ho na,bit funny guy,714 first welcome to the world of gupshup,I have read in the paper heard in the news the version of rape they have in america,but I dont disagree with you,but I think,cutting or chopping will not help,anyone who is involved in rape,that person should be hanged and stoned to death.

dil..dilseee