privacy and westernization

[Mr Fraudia]

is privacy a western concept? does it not mesh in with desi culture?
I recently was infomed that I was "too westernized for my own good" because i stood up for my privacy .

The person who leaked the info, and when confronted not only got upset and started counting any favours this person had done for me, but also that I was too westenized for my own good

just wondering

[CocoNut]

Its a western concept according to desis, atleast I think so and have experienced it myself when I ask for a peace of mind from the stampeding numbskulls. They don't know what privacy means, knock on the door means, where does it stop, where does it end , always so nosy its a pain! Ugh, don't even get me started . . .

[abc1234]

yup i think privacy is generally a western concept fraudia bhai, except in a few matters. i'm not saying i don't want my privacy too sometimes. but i dont like myself when i think like that. i don't think that its a nice thing to 'want your privacy'. usually when i think like that i tell myself its not a good thing and make myself overcome that feeling. sharing is always a better thing than isolating oneself and demanding privacy.

coz think abt it, if u continue in that line of thinking, shuru shuru mein u might think mild things where u want ur privacy r ok. lekin i have noticed that if u keep going in that diection and start thinking its OK then soon u want ur privacy in everything.

i've seen that most of the western ppl always want their 'space' and 'privacy' while most desi friends are more sharing and apnaiyat zaada hoti hae in mein.

but ofcourse in some things u do need ur privacy. so at the end of the day i think one should just make a personal choice and do what they are comfortable with, thats most important

waisay i don't think u r too westernised, u r very much desi, jo kehte hayn un ko kehne deyn desion kee aadat hoti hay doosron ko aisay kehna :biggrin:

[Natsi kapskcus]

desis have different kind of privacies I think but in general more sociable. also westerners amongst themselves are less reserved and less private than with others. for example in locker rooms etc they go about changing ...or in showers ...without concern, I have not ever seen this happen in India (don't know about pakistan).also in India I have seen two boys walk with hands over shoulders without having to worry about being mistaken for alternate tastes (!) but can you imagine how that will be interpreted in NYC?

[Mr Fraudia]

Coconut and Irem

Thanks for your responses. I see where you are coming from as far as general importance of privacy and space here vs back in Pakistan.

Here is a hypothetical situation. lets say coconut is getting engaged, i cant make it because I am being sued and have to be in court that day. I dont want to share that info, but when person-X (a common friend)insists that the date of teh event can not be changed and I ask him to keep it under wraps, but that my issue is beyond my control and that if this case materializes, I will be unable to attend, so coconut could reschedule it or carry on without me and either way it is okay.

Now person-x goes and tells coconut's future inlaws that the potential date is a problem because I may be in court, should I not be upset. To top that off person-X claims that my agreement with him was not borken because the "details' were not divulged and that I am too westernised for my own good.

Its kinda strange this person divulged private information like within a week to an unrelated party, claims that the promise of non-disclosure was kept, and now is furious that I told person-x to be careful in the future.

I am kinda baffled. In past I have always practiced that if you want something private dont share it with anyone, but then one time I share something with someone who is supposed to be close to me and boom its out in the public a few days later.

and.. I dont have a right to be upset...but person-x has a right to be upset that I had the nerve to ask person-x to be careful in the future.

I dunno man..thats one person who is never getting any privileged info from me ever again..

[mehroo]

my mamu have always been called "westernised " , "nakhreela" and "rude" just because he wants some privacy , when ever he have some plans with family or friends he dont mind telling us that not to come over cz they need some privacy but somehow our desi ppl just cant accepet it :-)

[Munni]

I dont know if its a western concept, because there are eastern cultures that emphasize privacy. Buddhists to me are an example of that. Very private people, the ones I've met atleast.

In my household I am sometimes accused of wanting to "hide" things for not sharing. I think its for the best though, so I dont give in.

I sometimes have desis telling me that its not good to be so private and secretive, and they sometimes say its unislamic (I dont know where they got that from), so sometimes I quote some religious text to them (that we both find agreeable), and then they dont comment further.

[funguy]

Stick to the discussion as oppose to passing comments that don't belong.

[Hong Kong Phooey]

No not in my opinion, desis (afghans, Indians) under the Raj were reviled for their secretive ways and doublespeak and still are, you ever tried buying a used car from a desi you don't know?

I think this particular individual who spilled the beans was lashing out at random, if anything Western culture is much more open.

[Mr Fraudia]

HKP

I think thats the case, person in question spilled the beans and when confronted could not just accept her fault but had to somehow make me responsible i.e. You are upset not because i violated your trust but because you are too westernised and want to keep things private.

Sad thing was I did not even want this person to apologize, but just reminded her to be a little bit careful in future.

Anyways, thanks to everyone's posts, and thanks to other advise from others, especially Munni, I am fairly clear on this and how to deal with the situation at hand.

Thanks

[STRONGMAN]

I think to some extent, it is a very western concept and one I agree with as well. Look at this scenario.
The other day, the wife and I were at a friends house for dinner. I don't live in a very dominantly desi part of town. I don't think there is any pakistani family within walking distance from our place although there are some indians, but just aquaintances. The friends house I was at, there were many pakistani families in the area(not that there is anything wrong with it). When we went, I just found it strange. Neighbors kids hanging around, running around. Some uncle dude dropping by unexpectedly, staying for tea. Some other sister there with her kid. Some other bros just stopping by outside the driveway area, then invited in for dinner. Here I thought we were were the only guests there
The house ended up looking like a zoo. My wife was talking to my friends wife and she said 'why dont you move to this area. Apnay loog bahut hain, etc... we always meet daily, etc... we always get together'.
Perhaps its me, but I can not live in such an environment. I want to come home from work to a peaceful place, not a zoo with people in there I dont even know. Sure, once in a blue moon is ok, but I think western social behaviours are more suited to my lifestyle when it comes to privacy. Like I would never just drop by, I would call first, just to make sure they are not busy, etc... but many pakistanis dont have this feeling or consideration for others.

In Pakistan, I found this unusual also, but not so much because there you cant escape it, with all your relatives in the neighborhood, there is always aana, jaana. No concept of privacy there and if you refuse someone who wants to drop by, they would be offended. Anyways, I guess it all depends on what kind of environment you were brought up in and what you consider personal and private.

I dont want to make this into a religious discussion but to some extent, western values of privacy are islamically inherited. Something we have lost. No backbiting, no slandering, no spying. I even read a hadith that you must ask persmission before you enter someones house. Sheesh, many of us dont even give it a thought, especially in Pakistan, just walk right in


Salaam

[Afia]

Originally posted by STRONGMAN:
I dont want to make this into a religious discussion but to some extent, western values of privacy are islamically inherited. Something we have lost. No backbiting, no slandering, no spying. I even read a hadith that you must ask persmission before you enter someones house. Sheesh, many of us dont even give it a thought, especially in Pakistan, just walk right in


Salaam

i like this part of your post ........you r right

you say 'i even read a hadith'.......well i say i read it in Quran.....without permission we are not allowed in our own houses........but unfortunately when it comes to manners we forget our religion.......!!!!

anyway , to me its better to be secretive than telling something n regretting afterwards........!!!!

[Mr Fraudia]

Originally posted by Afia:
anyway , to me its better to be secretive than telling something n regretting afterwards........!!!!

Afia I agree 100%, its sad when you are in a situation where you are forced to confide in someone and the proimse not being kept.

[Munni]

No need to thank me, but you're most welcome. *smile*

Originally posted by Fraudz:
HKP

I think thats the case, person in question spilled the beans and when confronted could not just accept her fault but had to somehow make me responsible i.e. You are upset not because i violated your trust but because you are too westernised and want to keep things private.

Sad thing was I did not even want this person to apologize, but just reminded her to be a little bit careful in future.

Anyways, thanks to everyone's posts, and thanks to other advise from others, especially Munni, I am fairly clear on this and how to deal with the situation at hand.

Thanks

[Faisal]

Frauds... you ARE too secretive. :~P

Waisay, even when I was in Pakistan, I was a firm-believer in Need-to-Know theory. Don't tell anyone anything which they don't need-to-know.

I think its not so much as desi or western kinda thing. I know many goras who love to talk and talk about everything under the sun happening to them.

Its more a person thing. Some people live their lives like an open book. Some want to control the information which goes out, so that they have to face less questions. Nothing wrong with either of these, per se. Just different life-styles.

I have a family uncle, from whom you can never get a straight answer out. Even straight-forward questions like "Karachi ka mausam kaisa hai" will get a response like "Jaisa hamesha hota hai", as if telling anyone that its sunny and sweaty outside the window in Karachi will rupture some kinda confidentiality clause he has signed with the city.