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    Court Denys Care To Alien Mothers

    http://law.about.com/library/weekly/...m?PM=n3053001a

    Benefits

    Appeals court affirms Congress's right to deny assistance to pregnant undocumented aliens even though the babies will be U.S. citizens




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    Related Resources
    U.S. Immigration Issues
    More Social Policy Issues





    From Other Guides
    U.S. Immigration Law
    Immigration Economics
    Prenatal Care at a Glance





    Elsewhere on the Web
    Immigrant Prenatal Care Jeopardized (AP)
    The ruling (Lewis v. Grinker, 2nd Cir., May 22, 2001)




    Dateline: 05/29/01

    In a case that seems to highlight


    governmental foolishness, if not irrationality, the U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York has ruled that Congress can seek to deter alien women from illegally entering the United States by denying them benefits for prenatal care, even though the children, once born, will be U.S. citizens with automatic eligibility for Medicare.

    The court so ruled even though it accepted the fact that the cost of medical treatment for conditions created by lack of prenatal care greatly exceeds the cost of prenatal care.

    The ruling last week in Lewis v. Grinker (2nd Cir., May 22, 2001), ends a long-standing lower court order requiring the government to provide prenatal care to undocumented aliens while requiring assistance to the same mothers' children once they are born in the U.S. to the same extent as any other U.S. citizen.

    About Poll
    Should the welfare system cover prenatal care for pregnant illegal immigrants in the U.S.?
    Yes
    No


    Current Results



    The court relied on the famous Roe v. Wade abortion decision from 1973 to establish that the unborn fetuses could not have the rights associated with citizens, even if when born they will instantly and automatically gain citizenship by virtue of being born in the U.S., because Roe established that fetuses cannot be considered "persons" within the meaning of the constitution. As such, the denial of benefits by Congress would be upheld if the law met a mere "rational basis" test on review, as opposed to a higher standard (presumably, a "compelling state interest") applied to citizens claiming lack of equal treatment under the Fourteenth Amendment.

    The government proposed three reasons in support of rationality. First, it claimed that denying benefits to illegal immigrants would deter further illegal immigration. Second, that it encouraged, relatively speaking, more self-sufficient immigrants (presumably those that would not apply for medical assistance). Third, the government proposed that denying prenatal benefits to these undocumented women would save money.

    The court agreed with the first theory. Barely. It said:


    Although the record discloses no evidence that a prospective illegal immigrant considers the unavailability of prenatal care in deliberating whether to illegally enter the country, such evidence is not required to satisfy rational basis analysis. ... It is sufficient that this proposition be "reasonably conceivable," ... and it is reasonable for Congress to believe that some aliens would be less likely to hazard the trip to this country if they understood that they would not receive government benefits upon arrival .... Although it seems likely that many alien women will illegally immigrate to obtain the benefit of citizenship for their children, undeterred by ineligibility for prenatal care in the event of pregnancy, Congress is entitled to suppose that the denial of care will deter some of them. In the realm of immigration, where congressional discretion is extremely broad, this supposition, even if dubious, satisfies rational basis review.
    Because this was sufficient to uphold the restrictive welfare law, the court did not even address the second proposed justification, that of encouraging self-reliance. As to the cost factor, however, the court added in a footnote:
    The latter rationale [cost savings] would seem to press the limits of even "rational speculation;" ... it requires a belief that the welfare costs that would have been spent on the alien women (and their families) who are deterred by the denial of benefits would exceed the added costs of providing extensive medical services, for the rest of their lives, to the citizen children of those who come anyway.
    One might wonder how this court can see any difference in rationality between the theory of deterrence - indeed, it called the deterrence theory, "dubious" - when women will know that if they can bear their children in the U.S., the children will be automatic U.S. citizens and entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens, just because they will not be able to get free prenatal care during pregnancy, while at the same time having no problem suggesting that the proposed dollar savings rationale is bogus.
    In other words, if "Congress is entitled to suppose that the denial of care will deter some of them [from illegally immigrating],'' why is not Congress entitled to suppose that the government would save money by not paying benefits to those who are deterred from ever coming to the U.S., or entitled to suppose that those that do come anyway will generally find prenatal care some other way? Conversely, if the court says that the evidence doesn't support the cost savings rationale, how then can it apply mere speculation to support the deterrence rationale?

    In any event, it ultimately falls to Congress to take another look at the mess with which the courts must wrestle over the lack of minimal prenatal care and, as they say, "do the right thing."



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    :

    When was i for real?
    I am myself a dream
    I always see you
    watching me tenderly

    #2
    legal aliens sure
    illegal aliens no

    where do you think this welfare funding comes from? our taxes..

    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Fraudz:
      legal aliens sure
      illegal aliens no

      where do you think this welfare funding comes from? our taxes..

      And what about humanity????

      Reh gaya kaam hamaara hi baghawat likhna...

      Comment


        #4
        what about personal responsibility? assylum seekers are a diff story but a person who goes to another country illegally does so of his/her free will..

        at what point does a person's own responsibility ends and society's responsibility starts?
        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

        Comment


          #5
          BUT THEN YOU ALREADY IN IT BY GIVING CITIOENSHIP TO THE BABY!!!!

          Its like you own up to the family ,despite being ILLEGAL ,due to legal technicality.If you want to own upto legal loophooles ,due to your OWN creation,might as well do it right!

          What if the baby is deformed because of bad or NO care.The baby will be life long tax payers BURDEN b/c he /she is U.S. citizen MORE than yiou & i as BORNAmerican,unlike you & me & technically CAN be u.S. President which naturalized citizens are NOT eligible!!!
          Law cost us more not HUMANITY!

          ------------------

          :

          When was i for real?
          I am myself a dream
          I always see you
          watching me tenderly

          Comment


            #6

            Sanam,

            I assume then, that while the rest of us are paying for medicare for *all* legal residents, you will be more than happy to personally pay the healthcare costs of people who *choose* to break the law?

            I am not talking about asylum seekers (who are legal residents) but illegal economic migrants who *chose* to come here for financial reasons.

            Humanity is one thing. Catering to people who expect free services when not having contributed to society is something entirely different.

            If you want to give anyone a free ride, please do so with your own money. Until then I'll only pay for those who don't come here to take more than they give.

            Comment


              #7
              Pilot..you took the words right off my keyboard...my sentiments exactly.

              The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

              Comment


                #8
                LOL.
                I had seen this thread a few days ago and not having enough time to answer it then, decided to come back.

                Here I am and Pilot has already committed my sentiments to the thread.

                Well said buddy.

                Comment


                  #9

                  You all (muzna,Pilot,Fraudia) barking the wrong tree.

                  Just take the child in the womb.The pre natal care that mother gets is NOT only for the mothers health & well being through pregnancy & child birth with minimal damage to mother BUT ASLSO FOR baby .

                  Anything adversely affecting the baby will be BURDEN ,of u.s.a as granted under present law ,b/c the baby is citizen.

                  What is being said is not free HEALTH care for illegal aliens BUT maternity health care for Illergal alien MOTHERS!!!
                  Now you take it from there ........Comprehende amigos .se habla espaniloa gringo

                  ------------------

                  Woh afsaana jise anjaam tak, laana na ho mumkin
                  Use ek KHoobsoorat moR dekar, chhoRna achha

                  Comment


                    #10

                    The only possible motivation for the US to provide healthcare, is for the health of a prospective citizen. If the mother *choose* of her own *free* will to leave behind the healthcare provisions of her country, you are more than welcome to tend to her needs.

                    Please send me your address. I have decided I no longer want to pay for my weekly grocery shoping. I will come to your house instead and eat there. What's that matter? You don't want to see me starve do you? Where is your humanity?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pilot25:

                      The only possible motivation for the US to provide healthcare, is for the health of a prospective citizen. If the mother *choose* of her own *free* will to leave behind the healthcare provisions of her country, you are more than welcome to tend to her needs.

                      Please send me your address. I have decided I no longer want to pay for my weekly grocery shoping. I will come to your house instead and eat there. What's that matter? You don't want to see me starve do you? Where is your humanity?

                      You could ,if thats what u want!!!!but u have to be citizen

                      Why let the pregnant women stay here?Throw them across the border where ever they came from???
                      THERE IS ALREADY INS THAT DO THAT.BUT MANY MEXICAN INMMILLIONS ARE WORKING & GOVT RECOGNIZE THERE EXISTENCE ALTHOUGH THEY ARE NOT PWERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS OR CITIZEN

                      I didnt make the policy ,i am a new commer to this coubntry & just carry on from where it has been so far.

                      If you can uproot & start from beginning & i'l tell you how it should have been,
                      But thats not our perogatiove is it.???

                      ------------------

                      :

                      When was i for real?
                      I am myself a dream
                      I always see you
                      watching me tenderly

                      Comment


                        #12

                        Sanam, I found it hard to understand your post, no matter how many times I read it, so I'll just reply to your first comment.

                        As you are so willing to pay for the healthcare of anyone who comes to this country, please post your credit card details as I know people (both US citizens and otherwise) who need someone to pay for their healthcare. I'm sure your generiosty will be much appreciated.

                        I look forward to your display of "humanity".

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by FYI:

                          Anything adversely affecting the baby will be BURDEN ,of u.s.a as granted under present law ,b/c the baby is citizen.
                          The baby "will" be a citizen. The baby has the "potential" to be a citizen. Until the baby is born the baby is not a US citizen.

                          If a pregnant woman comes here stays a few months and goes back..and the kid is born in burkina faso, does the kid become an american citizen..nope.

                          So the kid is a potential american citizen, and will get the rights that a citizen gets when he is a citizen.

                          as far as the spanish display goes..viva gordita

                          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

                          Comment

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