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South Asian or not ?

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    South Asian or not ?


    This is a result of two posts by another member (rvikz), quoted below

    pakistan is southasian nation
    not a member of arab league not part of central asian nations not a persian
    nation. i never understand why pakistanis
    eager to associate with non-south asian
    heritage


    and another quote

    The linguistic translocation of the Indo-European homeland from northern Europe to Asia Minor requires drastic revisions in theories about the migratory paths along which the IndoEuropean languages must have spread across Eurasia. Thus, the hypothetical Aryans who were said to have borne the so-called Aryan, or Indo-lranian, language from Europe to India—and who were conscripted into service as the Nordic supermen of Nazi mythology—turn out to be the real Indoiranians who made the more plausible migration from Asia Minor around the northern slopes of the Himalaya Mountains and down through modern Afghanistan to settle in India. Europe is seen, therefore, as the destination, rather than the source, of Indo-European migration.

    (I will elaborate on how this is post is a very wild assumption regarding WHAT the migrational spread of the Aryans actually was. Some how teh reader and writer are led to believe that the spread was from teh West to the East, which is totaly inacurate.)


    However,


    I wanted to open a thread about the ideological subset, that is the Pakistani Psychy.

    What do Pkaistanis regard themselves as in terms of geographical reference and how do they justify it.

    So, lets see what

    #2
    .

    [This message has been edited by CM (edited June 06, 2002).]
    You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

    Comment


      #3
      A lot of Indians seem to resent Pakistanis because they link themselves with other nationalities through religion. This is more a case of sharing similar outlooks and beliefs, it does not mean we reject our South Asian heritage.

      We are what we are, there's no point in trying to be something else. That means we have to acknowledge our South asian heritage, but we also have to acknowledge the impact Moghuls and there predecessors left. Also, we border Afghanistan and Iran so it would be stupid not to recognise that some influence will rub off both ways.

      In fact, the whole of India has been directly affected by muslim influence, right down to the hindi which is spoken on national TV and cinema, which is very similar to urdu.

      Comment


        #4
        but most of the pakistanis feel at home in india than in mideast countries because of language and culture and geography.
        arab visitor to pakistan may not feel at home in pakistan and vice versa
        even indian and pakistani immigrants
        when they live outside their region feel
        more close to each and associate with each other than with any other group

        Comment


          #5
          It is hard to say that pakistan has ever represented anything more to its 130 million citizens than a safe haven from Hindu domination. The death of Pakistan's founding father, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in 1948 robbed the people of their chance to have the "Great Leader" stamp a vision, an identity on his creation.

          A quick look at the historical setting of independence, however, calls into question whether even Jinnah could have defined Pakistan's identity, other than pointing to its purpose as a lifeboat for Muslim self-rule after 1947.

          Comment


            #6
            Pakistan is an Islamic State and therefore part of the Dar-ul-Islam (House of Islam), Pakistan is part of the Muslim Ummah. One clarification here which is contrary to some popular belief that Middle East the entire Ummah. Middle East is not the entire Ummah but merely part of the Muslim Ummah which stretches from far west from Morocco to Far East to Indonesia, then in Europe from of Bosnia Herzegovina, Albania to Asia minor Turkey and then to entire Central Asia Kazakhstan, Kyrhgyzstan and in Southern Russia Tatarstan then to Northen western China in Xinjiang and then it covers over half of the African continent. This is Dar-ul-Islam. Every body else is Darl-ul-Herb (House of Kuffr and Hostility). A Muslim can have only two possible relations with Dar-ul-Harb: peace with a contractual agreement, or war. A country with which there is a treaty will not be considered the home of Islam. Thus the affairs of Pakistan can in no way be mixed with any South Asian affairs of Dar-ul-Harb as the affairs of Muslims cannot be mixed with the affairs of polytheists.


            [This message has been edited by Musalman (edited December 05, 2000).]

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Musalman:
              Pakistan is an Islamic State and therefore part of the Dar-ul-Islam (House of Islam), Pakistan is part of the Muslim Ummah. One clarification here which is contrary to some popular belief that Middle East the entire Ummah. Middle East is not the entire Ummah but merely part of the Muslim Ummah which stretches from far west from Morocco to Far East to Indonesia, then in Europe from of Bosnia Herzegovina, Albania to Asia minor Turkey and then to entire Central Asia Kazakhstan, Kyrhgyzstan and in Southern Russia Tatarstan then to Northen western China in Xinjiang and then it covers over half of the African continent. This is Dar-ul-Islam. Every body else is Darl-ul-Herb (House of Kuffr and Hostility). A Muslim can have only two possible relations with Dar-ul-Harb: peace with a contractual agreement, or war. A country with which there is a treaty will not be considered the home of Islam. Thus the affairs of Pakistan can in no way be mixed with any South Asian affairs of Dar-ul-Harb as the affairs of Muslims cannot be mixed with the affairs of polytheists.


              [This message has been edited by Musalman (edited December 05, 2000).]
              religen alone cant be basis of relationship
              among nations or even within nation as pakistan has found out. which muslim country will give pakistan money except IMF. what country most pakistanis aspire to immigrate
              west or mideast?
              you cant divide the world in to islamic and anti-islamic.
              earth that we inhabit is so complex and varied with myriad of languages races religens that defies simplistic division
              in to two catogories.


              [This message has been edited by rvikz (edited December 05, 2000).]

              Comment


                #8
                In fact, the whole of India has been directly affected by muslim influence, right down to the hindi which is spoken on national TV and cinema, which is very similar to urdu.

                Actually Hindi is drived from sanskrit and Urdu is close to Hindi not the other way around as you seem to suggest. All North Indian languages are sanskrit driven and have very similar sentence structure.

                We are what we are and feel very fortunate to be part of the centuries old history and culture.

                You want to from a group based on your religion go ahead and do it, nobody is stopping you. In your case it seems religion is guiding you to form an allance with Arabs rather then with your own people, it is a dividing force rather than uniting...so be it.

                Indians are very secure with their own culture and I don't think we care what kind of culture you force yourself to follow.

                [This message has been edited by Rani (edited December 05, 2000).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Rani, i'm not putting you down but you have to realise and i'm speaking of all the indians on this forum, that propoganda from your side will be seen as what it is.

                  So if your proud of your "mighty" bharat why do you insist on tellin us. Good for you but what significance has it in relation to us.

                  The idea I get is there is a facination/obsession with us, or a harkening for "akhand bharat" which never existed in history or fact.

                  you are too easily offended for someone who has nothing better to do than attack other peoples religion/country. chill out you might like it.

                  [This message has been edited by PJ (edited December 05, 2000).]

                  [This message has been edited by PJ (edited December 05, 2000).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You can take on any identity you want it doesn't affect us at all...Indians are at the most amused at your attempts to become Arabs.

                    Do whatever makes you happy...we feel very secure in our culture and have nothing to gain by imposing it on you or anybody.

                    P.S. Seriously i have not seen any meaningful post from you except put downs or ganging up with Malik and co. for cheap thrills and to abuse...just as i said please carry on...

                    [This message has been edited by Rani (edited December 05, 2000).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Listen i want you to read my post above, if indians come and try to diss us on our own website WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, i don't hate indians, i used to go out with an indian girl why should i hate indians.

                      But insults will be met by insults, by the way the discussion is about south asia, we are different because we have so many influences apart from south asia, for example Turkish, Iranian, Central Asian, Arabic, Greek, White Huns etc.

                      My own family has Mughal/Central Asian ancestory as well as Raja/Jat relations.
                      So that is why we are different.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You have to understand we love our country as i'm sure you love yours.

                        So CM, Malik, Extreme bros etc, are just patriots as far as i'm concerned, so when you make "dodgy" statements about our country/religion etc, we have to reply in kind.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          South Asia or not?

                          Interesting question. I think we are NOT South Asian, neither are we truly Middle Eastern not truly Central Asian. Instead we are a region which straddles all these regions giving us a unique geographical postion - a sort of bridge between the regions (like Turkey for instance).

                          Look at the sure facts:-

                          India IS South Asian.
                          Afghanistan IS Central Asian.
                          Iran is Middle Eastern

                          And we are situated between all three countries. At best I would say we are a West Asian nation.

                          P.S. PJ dont mind her she has problems of her own that she alleviates by coming onto this forum and taking it out on us good Pakistani's. But to our advantage not one of her fellow Indians ever comes to her defence - rather the opposite actaully!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            rvikz said:
                            QUOTE
                            religen alone cant be basis of relationship among nations or even within nation as pakistan has found out. which muslim country will give pakistan money except IMF. what country most pakistanis aspire to immigrate
                            west or mideast?
                            UNQUOTE

                            DEEN (Religion) alone is the ONLY basis of relationship prescribed to Muslims by ALLAH (SWT), to deal with non-believers. Muslims will never dispute the wisdom of our Creator. What Pakistan is currently experiencing is because of illiteracy and has nothing to do with Islam. On the same token what Pakistan has truly found is that answers to all of her problems lies in Islam. By the will of ALLAH (SWT) it has also realized that the solution lies only in implementing Islam, the righteous path. That is why we have embarked on the process of Islamization of Pakistan; be it education, economy, politics, and laws, thus every thing is moving towards Islam.
                            For your information lots our Muslim brothers help us out. Few examples Saudi Arabia is providing One Billion yes Billion worth of oil free to Pakistan to coupe with western imposed sanctions. Besides hundreds of projects in Pakistan are funded by ISLAMIC DEVELOPMENT BANK ever since we have realized the true face of IMF. In-fact Pakistan has announced that her utmost priority is to rid the IMF loans and work with Islamic Countries for financing projects. Further more hundreds of projects for highways are carried by Turkey another brotherly country. Malaysia is helping Pakistan out in carrying out several hundred IT projects. Islamic world is buying Indigenously developed modern Pakistani weapons; a prelude to the stepping stone of the future Unified Islamic Army. There is also an active discussion at OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries; the largest organization in the world based on Muslim brotherhood) to develop an Islamic common market.
                            There are more Pakistani expatriates in Middle-East then in West.

                            rvikz said:
                            QUOTE
                            you cant divide the world in to islamic and anti-islamic.earth that we inhabit is so complex and varied with myriad of languages races religens that defies simplistic division in to two catogories.
                            UNQUOTE

                            The world is clearly divided by ALLAH (SWT) whose infinite wisdom cannot be challenged into two parts; namely DAR-UL-ISLAM (House of Islam) and DAR-UL-HARB (House of Kuffr and Hostility). A Muslim can have only two possible relations with Dar-ul-Harb: peace with a contractual agreement, or war. A country with which there is a treaty will not be considered the home of Islam. Allah clearly orders us through the following beautiful words:
                            23:52: "And verily this Ummah of yours IS A SINGLE UMMAH and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore Fear Me (and no other)"
                            Alhumdolillah, this Ummah is rich in culture, language, and backgrounds. Learning and appreciating ours and other Muslim cultures and backgrounds and languages is one thing but we do not divide this Ummah based on Nationalism because Nationalism is considered evil in Islam. ALLAH (SWT) instructs us:
                            3:105 "Be NOT like those WHO ARE DIVIDED AMONGST THEMSELVES and fall into disputations ..... "
                            The conclusion is nobody will be able to impose upon us what they think is true. We already possess the truth its time to implement it.




                            [This message has been edited by Musalman (edited December 05, 2000).]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanx for your input Malik and Musalman bros, i think it has been proven that we are a unique nation with many influences and races that we are the quintessential melting pot.

                              History and migrations from pre-history to modern day (ie from central asia, india, arab countries, western girls who marry Pakistanis and then settle there etc) make this a reality.

                              Comment

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