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Are we more Pakistani then Pakistanis themselves?

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    Are we more Pakistani then Pakistanis themselves?

    Many pakistani youth of western society are put in akward positions. On one hand, they must adjust to the social norms of the western society, be able to adapt, and if not readily conform: atleast show some significance of acceptance. However, on the other hand, they strive to remain in tuned to their culture, religion, morals, ethics, values, needs and priorities. In this balanced equilibrium (or unbalanced equilibrium) You'd think that looking to Pakistan as your country of orgin, as the center of your identity, as the inspiration of who we are as 2nd generation pakistani muslims. Yet when you look to Pakistan for comfort, satisfaction and overall inspiration, you end up being extremely disappointed.

    Witnessing Valentines Day in Pakistan was worse enough for me. Couples making out infront of the mosque, holding hands openly and readily, clusters of girls wooing over red roses by their admirers. Man, what a bloody turn off. The country that was thought to symbolize one's identity as a person living in two worlds ends up being so marginalized then oneself. Judge me not wrong, I love Pakistan, I will always love it, regardless of how much I disagree with so many aspects of it. I visit Pakistan every year, and even though I wasn't born there, I will always look upon it as my second home. But can you imagine how infuriated I get when I think how hard I work in maintaining the ways of a respectable Pakistani Canadian gal, and how my own sisters in Pakistan make fools outta themselves by hitting on my Abu!

    Is it just me?

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    We Live As We Dream: Alone. (I am not a pessimist for I have allowed Joseph Conrad to speak the truth)

    [This message has been edited by Zubaya (edited August 13, 2000).]

    #2
    certain ppl in Pakistan think that being modern is in emulating everything in the west. But is it everything?

    They sure can dress and behave western in social settings, but the work ethic, the general ethics and all the good qualities that westeren ppl display are sadly absent.

    summarised in an urdu saying

    kawa chala haanss ki chaal, apni chaal bhi bhool gaya
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    Comment


      #3
      Fraudz:

      I understand what your saying. But perhaps your confirming my point: As pakistanis try especially hard to gain some recognition to be like western society, western society pakistanis try especially hard to preserve their eastern culture and roots. With such contradictory efforts, one's identity is ultimately lost!

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      We Live As We Dream: Alone. (I am not a pessimist for I have allowed Joseph Conrad to speak the truth)

      [This message has been edited by Zubaya (edited August 13, 2000).]

      Comment


        #4
        cultures and socieies evolve...just like people's individual personalities change, a collective personality i.e. culture changes as well.

        The problem we face is that when we import ideas, and parts from other cultures we import the skindeep, shallow and window dressing aspects of pop culture and not the positive inner workings i.e. the inherent strengths in the culture.

        It would be unwise to assume that Pkaistan today is like the Pakistan of 20 years ago, or a family living in the same location for generations has not changed in its outlook.

        Dont stop the culture from eveolving and changing, lets just worry about making the change a positive one instead of a negative one.
        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

        Comment


          #5
          Ofcourse Pakistan is the same as it was 20 years ago, but one would think it would have changed for the better. The fact of the matter is, society in Pakistan suffers from two contradictory ideologies. On one hand, they try to grasp on to their culture and religion, and on the other hand, they try to advance like western societies. This defintion falls under the class system. People of less wealth are much more intuned to their culture and religion then the wealthy minority. The Army society, which I'm familiar with, drink on Basant and copy the most negative aspects of western society. Now obviously I do not wish to over generalize, as many men in the army do enormous amounts of work to run the country productively. It is only the minority of that minority that behave so inhumane that it is infact, wester society's functions.

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          We Live As We Dream: Alone. (I am not a pessimist for I have allowed Joseph Conrad to speak the truth)

          [This message has been edited by Zubaya (edited August 13, 2000).]

          Comment


            #6
            Lets see here. I think what you are saying is that people with more money are the spoilt ones here, Zubaya?

            Kinna true. But I think people who have the money are also more educated, in most cases. Education means interaction with western societies with an open mind. Not all rich, educated people are bad. Which is exactly you are saying perhaps right ?!

            I agree.

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            Bibi Saddar ka bees rupiya ziada hoga...

            Comment


              #7
              Rishawala:

              Hmm perhaps ultimately money is the element that provokes such a fine line between eastern and western pakistanis. However, I do see some middle class pakistanis exhibiting more western features then the elite class themselves. I think in essence, the individuals that strive to be 'known' or worth a high reputation are those that try to copy the ways of the western world. A 17 year old pakistani poor boy will wear a leather jacket, drive around in a dinky scooter and protray himself to be Mick Jagger. I really don't think money stops people from acting out in different ways. I think money allows people more opportunities and opens more windows of options. Regardless of such, it only matters how those opporutunities are put into place and how they are exhibited.

              Comment


                #8
                Okay lets see again.

                Like Mr. Fraudia ealier pointed out saying that its okay to follow and "... dress and behave western in social settings, but the work ethic, the general ethics and all the good qualities that westeren ppl display are sadly absent."

                I dont think there is anything wrong with trying to dress up like Mick Jagger or any other legendary icon.

                So are you saying that regardless of the economic and social status in a society, Pakistani are still following the west ? Poor and rich both?

                I think there is a lot in west to look upto other than the culture. Ofcourse we do have a much richer culture than the west.

                Its not only Pakistan which is losing its identity other traditionally conservative countries like Japan, Korea, China and middle eastern countries are also following the same path.




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                Bibi Saddar ka bees rupiya ziada hoga...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Rickshawala:

                  Is it a good thing that our culture is being stripped away more and more because of western society's domination through each passing generation? For me, no. Our values, morals, ethics, principles are much more enriching and enlightening than western society. It's just a shame that some do not realize that and forever try to be accepted or known as a westerner.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Zubaya..

                    culture evolves,, you cannot make it conform to only the good aspects of it as good and bad aspects are intertwined.. kinda like ying and yang.. While we celebrate the good points we obtain from the west we berate the bad points.. which is fine upto a point but is kinda unfair to blame everything on the west..

                    on the whole the pakistani society is probably more attuned to religious aspects now as it was before.. just read up on the history and you will see that.. all the things you are seeing in open now had been under wraps for the longest time.. and that is the hipacrisy of nation that they look at their failings as influence from the west.

                    Where was umrao jan from? did not the balochi sardars (or whatever they are called) go to prostitutes..or for the matter a whole lahori prostitutes community thriving and accepted behind badshahi mosque... and let us not forget the buggery of pathans..

                    have all these been imported from the west.. i think not.. as when these things were practiced when these ideas were abhorred in the west..

                    In a sense you can also say that it is we who have corrupted the west..

                    All in all.... people in the west will think twice before making out in front of a church.. as they know the limits of the society which obviously are not present in pakistan.. blame for this rests entirely on the pakistanis.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hmm, Blackzero. I never thought in that way. What your saying does make sense. But do you really think we have adapted to the best elements of western society? To be honest with you, I certainly don't. The fact that a holiday such as Valentine's Day is celebrated in Pakistan is in turn, the essence of a celebration of Christmas. True, Pakistan's past has experienced devilish controversial conspiracies, but all in all they were from the formation corrupt off-strayers of culture. Not American culture. Is it wrong for one to blame the west for all their negative elements? Ofcourse. But the truth of the matter is, it's happening regardless. For example, Pakistani culture once viewed healthy women as an asset. But with the uproar of thiness in the western culture, anorexia has flooded upperclass Pakistani girls. And I do not speak in ill mannered "point the finger" but instead based on Psychological Journalistic facts. Insecurity has swept Pakistani youth, and all I would wish to do is bless them with confidence for their own culture.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hmm another interesting topic.

                        well, you are very right Zubaya about this... Yes, now it has become very common for the Pakistani youth to have boy friends/girlfriends. And if there is someone then they have to celebrate the valentines day... Also I once read an article (in the Magazine Takbeer) about the Pakistani youth clebrating New Year. It was awful to read that..

                        And also, when I was in Pakistan at the start of the millennium, I was in the middle of my exams and I remember clearly it was 23rd night of Ramazan. The place where I was staying they were dancing and having fun, forcing me to join... And I kept thinking, "in ka kiya banay ga??"

                        And another important thing, at my friends parties, of course there were no guys invited.. but after sometime, they used to close the lights and everyone sarted dancing. When I used to say, "no I can't dance, you please carry on" when they forced me to join... Some of the girls gave me such a look..okay I can't dance.. so what.. am I ruining your party??? And I felt myself totally stupid in that situation. But now, I enjoy myself at those parties, sit and observe.

                        And yes there is one very common question which most of the girls ask when you become friends with them, "tumhara koi banda hai keh nahien?"... For the first time, I didn't get that, but when I realized I was like...."ohhhhhhhhh!! you mean that banda?!?! No I don't have any banda". Some say, "no!! we can't believe you, there is someone, hai na!?!".... and my answer "okay don't believe me.. Hai! Phir?? does that change anything in your life?"

                        And guess what I am known as "Bore" among my classfellows, because I don't enjoy my life as they do...

                        I have seen that change in the people, it has just started a few years ago.. people following the western culture blindly, when they started watching more of movies, whether western or Indian or Pakistani.. They all give the same message "Starting a relationship before marriage is fine".. this is what our youth follows.

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                        The light you see at the end of the tunnel is always a train.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Clementine,

                          I agree with everything that you say. Really it is quite pitiful. It's also interesting to observe the different ways girls and boys conform to western society. I think many girls have breaken free from the traditional "daughter at home" schema and search for some meaning through a career, hobby, social life, sports. I applaud that. However along with the profession and modernism comes the influence of Western society. The music, movies, clothes, products, perfumes and overall lifestyle appeals to the girls because it represents freedom and choice. However, these girls do not realize that Islam and the Pakistani culture offers and embraces freedom and choice. It's amazing that in such a society, a woman such as Benezair ever came to be. Sure, she was corrupted by her husband, but the essence is a woman once ruled Pakistan. Imagine that eh?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Zubaya:
                            Sure, she was corrupted by her husband, but the essence is a woman once ruled Pakistan. Imagine that eh?
                            This is what I have to differ with. Her corruption record goes back since way before her marriage, which we can discuss in politics section.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So, in short Pakistan is a Kaffur nation ? I think it is.

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